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Status:
"I don't understand. But I don't care, so it works out."
(set 6 days ago)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by residinghere2007
I worked with the elderly population and I know about shingles. It is a HORRIBLE disease. Should have been more specific that "up to" 25% of people who got chicken pox are susceptible to getting shingles. However, it is much higher of a risk for kids to get as adults/elderly than it is for someone who had the varicella vaccine to get it.
That was the main reason I made sure my kids got varicella vaccination. Plus, I never caught chicken pox (everyone in my house caught it except me when I was 15 - both my mom and 16 year old brother had to be hospitalized because they developed pox internally) and I don't want to get it as an adult as it is more serious.
Shingles is horrible. It's like someone is rubbing a burn with a brillo pad.
What does "up to 25%" mean? I could just as easily say up to 100%. What the actual stat?
I'd roughly guess, based on observation alone, the likelihood is somewhere around 5% or less.
And we have no idea - and no way to guess - what the likelihood for shingles in old age will be for the 20 somethings and younger who have gotten the vaccine instead of the disease.
That one was flawed, likely intentionally so. That doesn't mean there isn't a direct link between childhood vaccination and autism like disorders.
I could design a very, very flawed study to show a link between smoking and lung cancer. So what? That doesn't mean there isn't a link between smoking and lung cancer.
One flawed/perhaps purposefully misleading study doesn't negate the clear possibility that childhood vaccines have done real damage to some children.
It's true that one study doesn't prove much of anything. But there have been many, many studies involving MILLIONS of kids that show that vaccines don't cause autism. One just came out last week. https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...t-cause-autism
Re: The Wakefield study, Wakefield is a crook. That's been proven legally. He lost his license to practice medicine in England. He went to Minnesota and convinced those Somali parents not to vaccinate. When one of those kids dies of SSPE, he'll be responsible. He held a patent on a measles vaccine; he had to discredit the current vaccine in use to get people to use his vaccine.
All the vaccines in current use have been out at least five years; some, like diphtheria have been out for close to 100 years. Smallpox has been in use (still given in some military situations) about 225 years. If there were all these horrible side effects to them, we'd know it by now.
I spoke about my dad who is in his 60s and has some medical conditions (mostly heart related) and refuses to get the vaccine so I spoke on the one about elderly people. I have no issue (again) with people not getting it but it bothers me when people say that the "side effects" of vaccines scare them yet the complications (side effects) of the actual disease they ignore even though they are worse than the vaccine.
This is the conlcusion regarding flu vaccines in the orderly population.
“Older adults receiving the influenza vaccine may experience less influenza over a single season, from 6% to 2.4%, meaning that 30 people would need to be vaccinated with inactivated influenza vaccines to avoid one case of influenza. Older adults also probably experience less ILI, from 6% to 3.5%, meaning that 42 people would need to be vaccinated to prevent one case of ILI. The amount of information on pneumonia and mortality was limited. Data were insufficient to be certain about the effect of vaccines on mortality. No cases of pneumonia occurred in one study that reported this outcome, and no data on hospitalisations were reported. We do not have enough information to assess harms relating to fever and nausea in this population.
The impact of influenza vaccines in older people is modest, irrespective of setting, outcome, population, and study design.”
My concern is, there is a feeling among the community that vaccines are harmless and voices that say they've been greatly harmed by a vaccine are drowned out.
It's something we need to consider.
Additionally, it's beginning to appear that everyone should "eat a little dirt" and be exposed to more germs as children so their immune systems learn to work.
I don't think anyone seriously believes that vaccines are "harmless" but they actually are less harmless than diseases they protect against.
Good thing I ate dirt as a kid I guess lol. My kids did too - once my daughter got a huge rock stuck in her mouth, which freaked me out but now you are making me think that she may have gotten some good disease protection from it - and minerals lol.
It's true that one study doesn't prove much of anything. But there have been many, many studies involving MILLIONS of kids that show that vaccines don't cause autism. One just came out last week. https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...t-cause-autism
Re: The Wakefield study, Wakefield is a crook. That's been proven legally. He held a patent on a measles vaccine; he had to discredit the current vaccine in use to get people to use his vaccine.
I got the flu vaccine in September, and caught Flu (strain A, one not in the vaccine) last month.
I missed 2.5 weeks of work and now have mono. I'm still going to get the vaccine every year; getting sick this year makes me appreciate all the years where the vaccine provided me some protection. Plus, I know several people who cannot get the vaccine, so I appreciate the opportunity to protect them as well.
I’m in the middle about this just because said shot has helped 100 people doesn’t mean it will help everyone.
My wife’s an licensed herblist and I’m more likely take what she gives me first. As I have stated before I have been military contractor in the past and there’s no way no in hell I’m going to get any more shots. If not TRULY needed.
Once again if said vaccination works don’t worry about the rest of us.
I like herbs, use them in cooking, like to drink herb teas. Herbs will not help your immune system produce ONE antibody to disease.
These snide comments about "if vaccination works don't worry about the rest of us" tickle me. Several of us have explained "herd immunity" over and over again. https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C...orJ-FWajypEwM:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC
They didn't know when it would wear off, is the point I'm making. Now we kind of know.
There were parents who just jumped up and vaxxed, when the shot was brand new, having no idea what might happen.
When the vax was first introduced, I had kids who were of the age to receive the vax, and I said no, let's just let them get chicken pox instead.
And I was right.
Of their peers who got the vax, MANY ended up getting the disease, which takes forever to scab over so they had to miss school, and it is much worse on a 12 year old than a 5 year old.
I don't think it's a bad thing to let your immune system fight stuff off, and I wonder with all our vaccinating, we might have weaker immune systems which have led to unprecedented rates of ear infections that kids have such a hard time recovering from.
1) Who is "they" and what do we kind of know?
No, you weren't right. Your kids will be much more vulnerable to shingles than their friends who got vaccinated and didn't get chickenpox. You do not understand how the immune system works to make that last statement. Vaccines don't weaken the immune system, they strengthen it by making it work to build antibodies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC
Nope.
It's exceptionally abnormal.
It's by getting sick in childhood that we develop immunities that keep us from getting sick as an adult.
But anyway, it's silly to keep this conversation going because there's no way for you to prove this here.
Honestly, OP, if you can demonstrate to the medical community that you've never been sick, they will flock to hear your story.
Saying if you get sick now you won't get sick as an adult (from the same diseases) is like saying if you burn down your house, you don't have to worry about it burning down again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC
How about flu, and chicken pox?
Why do you keep thinking flu is so "harmless"? I don't think you know what "flu" is. Maybe you're one of these people who thinks vomiting and diarrhea is the flu?
You know, I hear what you're saying, but that is irrelevant particularly to vaccines. We also occasionally use leeches. However, we don't use either therapy the way it was used "back in the day". It is thought that George Washington probably died from his bloodletting, not from disease.
Quote:
Originally Posted by boneyard1962
I am pro vaccines. That said I also feel that we don't put nearly enough resources into finding out what the real root cause of Autism spectrum disorders are caused by. Find out the real causes and drive out the myths.
You will always have the ignorant who refuse to learn or adapt. The rest of us however need to move on from them and not accept a pharmaceutical company's word. The CDC? Questionable.
There are many questions with answers that are lacking. Why do some have adverse reactions to immunizations or vaccines and others dont?m. Research is needed because the answer that "some people just react differently" isn't good enough.
I avoid flu shots. 3 out of the last 4 times my arm swelled up and I got sick. Why? My doctor said "well some people react differently". His answer which this last time got him fired.
And the next doctor will probably say the same thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewjdeg
I suspect the reason we haven't found the "root cause" of autism is because there are probably thousands of causes - in concert with one another - that have the aggregate effect of an increase in autism.
People like easy singular scapegoats, and vaccines are the newest scapegoat.
Pro, I believe in modern medicine. Seriously, I had ancestors that died from diseases we now have vaccines for.
I have three great-uncles I never met because they died in a diphtheria epidemic in the 1890s. Something like ages 4-20.
Quote:
Originally Posted by boneyard1962
That isn't defaming.. Is it defaming to call out the Government for supplying weapons to ISIS? Oh wait yeah when it was Obama at the Helm.
Ok how about when the medical community gave black people with Syphilis placebos instead of actual treatment, just to study the long term effects?
How about dropping agent orange on our troops?
It isn't defaming to call out misdeeds. It's defaming to make crap up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by USMC1984
People make mistakes and have agendas...the CDC and our Government is made up of people. That is why I make no blanket statement or trust or distrust as a whole, I like to make my own informed decisions,
Here are a few example of why I don't just trust them because they are "experts":
I'll tell you an anecdotal story of why I don't just trust PHD's.
I was having bad pain in my left knee. My PHD at the time examined my knee, determined that my knee cartilage was beaking down due to age/wear. He wanted to give me a steroid shot, then possibly do a surgery if that didn't help. I passed for the moment. I went to my Chiropractor and he looked at my knee...did much more manuevering of the joint, felt around the muscles then laughed and said my cartilage was in great shape but my outer thigh muscle was very very tight as oppsed to the inner muscles. He said the pain is from the outer muscles pulling my knee cap off center. he got the outer muscles loosened, showed me some stretches to do and asked me to figure out if there was something I was doing that might work the outer musle on one leg more than the others. I did the stretches, figured out what was causing the issuee and adjusted my routine...problem solved, no drugs, no shots and no surgery!
So by YOUR standards, I should have just trusted the PHD because they had one and I didn't? This is why your call to authority deflection is stupid and weak. You can either counter a point or you cannot...
I may not be able to explain how a magic trick is done to know it wasn't magic!
I'll tell you why I trust PhDs. I'm married to one! Why were you going to a PhD for knee pain?
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice
Side effects rare? Hardly. Billions of dollars paid out to those that have experienced 'rare' side effects.
There is a special court system set up specifically to deal with side effect lawsuits.
There is a tax/fee/whatever you want to call it on each vaccine specifically to pay for all the anticipated SETTLEMENTS from the lawsuits prompted by the side effects that they know are going to occur.
They've prepared for all the lawsuits from the 'rare' side effects.
They know the side effects will occur.
They know they will be sued.
The manufacturers have been removed from the responsibility and set up a great little system to pay for it.
Rare? Nope. Not even close.
Billions of dollars over 40 years, about 1 award per million doses of vaccine given, 80% of which are no-fault. Even the lawyers' fees are paid through that fund.
These snide comments about "if vaccination works don't worry about the rest of us" tickle me. Several of us have explained "herd immunity" over and over again. https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C...orJ-FWajypEwM:
1) Who is "they" and what do we kind of know?
No, you weren't right. Your kids will be much more vulnerable to shingles than their friends who got vaccinated and didn't get chickenpox. You do not understand how the immune system works to make that last statement. Vaccines don't weaken the immune system, they strengthen it by making it work to build antibodies.
Saying if you get sick now you won't get sick as an adult (from the same diseases) is like saying if you burn down your house, you don't have to worry about it burning down again.
Why do you keep thinking flu is so "harmless"? I don't think you know what "flu" is. Maybe you're one of these people who thinks vomiting and diarrhea is the flu?
You know, I hear what you're saying, but that is irrelevant particularly to vaccines. We also occasionally use leeches. However, we don't use either therapy the way it was used "back in the day". It is thought that George Washington probably died from his bloodletting, not from disease.
And the next doctor will probably say the same thing.
I have three great-uncles I never met because they died in a diphtheria epidemic in the 1890s. Something like ages 4-20.
I'll tell you why I trust PhDs. I'm married to one! Why were you going to a PhD for knee pain?
Billions of dollars over 40 years, about 1 award per million doses of vaccine given, 80% of which are no-fault. Even the lawyers' fees are paid through that fund.
Oh, yes, MissTerri! The most recent one had 657,461 kids just by itself. Here's a list of studies, one of which had 715,484 kids in it. Wakefield's trash study had 12 kids. https://www.healthychildren.org/Engl...-Evidence.aspx
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I may not be able to explain how a magic trick is done to know it wasn't magic!