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Would this be a perfect example of “gish gallop” that you made reference to in another thread?
Nah, Gish gallop only applies when you mix in a bunch of BS claims amid some non BS claims, since all the claims in the quoted post were accurate and supported by data, it does not apply.
This is the conlcusion regarding flu vaccines in the orderly population.
“Older adults receiving the influenza vaccine may experience less influenza over a single season, from 6% to 2.4%, meaning that 30 people would need to be vaccinated with inactivated influenza vaccines to avoid one case of influenza. Older adults also probably experience less ILI, from 6% to 3.5%, meaning that 42 people would need to be vaccinated to prevent one case of ILI. The amount of information on pneumonia and mortality was limited. Data were insufficient to be certain about the effect of vaccines on mortality. No cases of pneumonia occurred in one study that reported this outcome, and no data on hospitalisations were reported. We do not have enough information to assess harms relating to fever and nausea in this population.
The impact of influenza vaccines in older people is modest, irrespective of setting, outcome, population, and study design.”
Be nice to see a cite instead of just a copy/pasta. "Flu vaccines in the "orderly" population? Orderlies? What we used to call guy CNAs? Just kidding. I guess you mean elderly.
So whoever wrote this is saying the studies weren't good, not that the vaccine isn't. They said the impact was "modest", not worthless.
Be nice to see a cite instead of just a copy/pasta. "Flu vaccines in the "orderly" population? Orderlies? What we used to call guy CNAs? Just kidding. I guess you mean elderly.
So whoever wrote this is saying the studies weren't good, not that the vaccine isn't. They said the impact was "modest", not worthless.
It’s from the Cochrane Review link I posted above. “Whoever wrote this” would be considered the Gold Standard. And yes, I’m guilty of a typo.
This is the conlcusion regarding flu vaccines in the orderly population.
“Older adults receiving the influenza vaccine may experience less influenza over a single season, from 6% to 2.4%, meaning that 30 people would need to be vaccinated with inactivated influenza vaccines to avoid one case of influenza. Older adults also probably experience less ILI, from 6% to 3.5%, meaning that 42 people would need to be vaccinated to prevent one case of ILI. The amount of information on pneumonia and mortality was limited. Data were insufficient to be certain about the effect of vaccines on mortality. No cases of pneumonia occurred in one study that reported this outcome, and no data on hospitalisations were reported. We do not have enough information to assess harms relating to fever and nausea in this population.
The impact of influenza vaccines in older people is modest, irrespective of setting, outcome, population, and study design.”
It appears that you got that quote from a Cochrane review, one of the authors of which is Tom Jefferson, who has never had anything good to say about flu vaccine. The review also does not say whether any of the studies it uses were about the senior version of the vaccine.
The problem with doing a meta-analysis of flu vaccines is that from year to year you are comparing oranges and tangerines. You are not comparing the same vaccine over multiple seasons.
This study compared the senior high dose vaccine to the standard dose. That is like comparing two varieties of oranges. The high dose was significantly more effective in preventing hospitalization in older adults.
For children, we know that 80% who die were not vaccinated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri
Would this be a perfect example of “gish gallop” that you made reference to in another thread?
No, it is use of the multiquote feature to respond to a series of posts in one post rather than several. When I first joined CD I was advised that is the preferred way to do it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri
It’s from the Cochrane Review link I posted above. “Whoever wrote this” would be considered the Gold Standard. And yes, I’m guilty of a typo.
Unless you tell us, we have no way of knowing that. I found it by searching for a line of text in your post.
Jefferson's reviews of flu vaccine have been criticized enough that they are hardly the gold standard.
Vaccines for communicable diseases need to be given to anyone who chooses to live among other people. It's a public health issue and "personal responsibility" isn't a factor.
Vaccines to protect you from diseases that only harm the individual I don't care about.
The only vaccine-preventable disease that isn't contagious is tetanus, and it is bundled with two contagious diseases, diphtheria and pertussis.
Quote:
Originally Posted by USMC1984
No one YET....there are people trying to force it though.
What "people"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by USMC1984
I guess it doesn't happen then...and no one wants to ban guns or restrict the first ammendment either...okay, go back in your bubble.
So, you deny this exists?
Conspiracy thinking is not helpful.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri
As of now the focus is on eliminating all but medical exemptions for school aged children. Don’t think adults won’t be next. If you value the ability to choose to forgo the flu vaccine for yourself then I’d highly suggest you’d also respect and fight for the rights of others to choose for themselves.
There are a lot of people who are in favor of forcing others to get every vaccine not he schedule yet they themselves will choose to not get the flu vaccine or they are against the HPV vaccine or the chicken pox vaccine. If people truly believe in being able to make their own choices then they should protect choice for all.
There are no vaccine mandates for adults now, except in some occupations, which you do not have to work in.
I know a few people who say they are pro-vax who do not get flu vaccine, mostly young people who probably haven't had a nasty case of flu. A story I've heard over and over is "I never got flu shots; then I got a case of flu. Now I never miss the shot."
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri
Why do you only mention kids dying from the flu, adults die from the flu too yet it hasn’t inspired you to get your flu shot. Why not?
Forced vaccines for adults may not be happening the very near future but it appears that it will happen at some point. Choice is gradually being taken away.
What is your evidence that "it appears that it (foreced vaccines for adults) will happen at some point. Choice is gradually being taken away"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by PilgrimsProgress
They need to go back to basics. Smallpox vaccines used to be a scratch on the arm which was then dabbed with the virus. No additives which are dangerous. Also kids take far too many vaccines which overload their systems.
I wanted to get a tetanus shot years ago and was told they didn't make a stand alone tetanus but it was packaged with other vaccines. No thanks.
I used to work with a woman whose daughter had violent reactions to the vaccines and will forever be a toddler in a woman's body. Very sad, very stressful and very expensive for the family.
Proper nutrition and hygiene is 90% of the battle, in my opinion. If you want to get shots go right ahead. We have illegals bringing in all sorts of diseases seldom seen in this country.
Someone answered this about smallpox vaccine, but I'll add. You do not understand vaccines if you think the smallpox vaccine is the bold. You cannot see a virus with the naked eye. The virus in that vaccine is in a suspension. fisheye worked on them, he could probably explain it better than me. Here is a list of vaccine excipients: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pi...nt-table-2.pdf Look up smallpox. Smallpox vaccine has way more antigens (proteins that cause antibody formation) than any of the other vaccines. In fact, kids get way fewer antigens today with more vaccines. https://vaxopedia.org/2016/09/07/antigens-in-vaccines/
I don't know what happened to your coworker's daughter but I can almost guarantee it wasn't due to vaccines. Parents often blame vaccines for things that happen to their kids. Remember the deaf Miss America whose mother said she was deaf from a DTP vaccination? Turned out she'd had meningitis, which causes hearing loss and for which no vaccine was available when she was a baby.
Most immigrants from Central and South America come from countries that have as good or better vaccination rates than the US.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48
Ok, let me address this consequences point to Suzy Q. You and I, and others, have discussed your endless rants about consequences over the years on this. Consequence will be your children cannot attend public school. Ok, mandate that, but you cannot mandate that they will never be allowed out in society. What is your legislation for that? Of course, these unvaccinated kids will never grow into adulthood? They will all die before they are old enough to procreate? Other posters, how were you ever born if your parents and grandparents weren't vaccinated for all these childhood and DIED?
Now what are your consequences for un/undervvaccinated adults? Tell these new posters. Raise their health insurance rates for nor being in compliance. YOUR consequences. I know you said you were still vaccinated for these childhood diseases which you HAD yourself. Feed the beast if that is your choice, but do not demand it of anyone else.
Since you like consequences so much, besides raising insurance rates, maybe you also favor people getting fired from their non-health care jobs as well? Would not surprise me at all. As I said before, raise my Medicare for non compliance and I will cancel it. Since I am not longer working and cannot be fired, you can cut my Social Security as a consequence as well?
I DETEST Medical Tyranny, which is what you, your husband's practice, and all your so called medical professionals seem to want. Dr. Jenny (young enough to be my daughter) nor Dr. Wakefield (still in school when I was an adult) did not sway my views. Wellness Employer Program sent me over the top 10 years ago as a Senior.
I already posted about the three great uncles I never met because they died from diphtheria. Plus, my great-grand was pregnant during that epidemic and had a stillborn. My guess is that she (GGM) got a mild case of diphtheria herself and it killed the baby.
The rest of your post is a rant against another poster and her husband, which is shameful.
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice
Obesity, drinking, and smoking are the main risk factors for pretty much everything.
I guess employers have a right to not hire fat people, alcoholics or smokers too.
Maybe they should scour medical records for every drug a doctor wanted someone to take that they didn't, every surgery that was recommended that people didn't have, every well visit that was missed. Maybe they could take a look at all pharmacy records, check all the refills, make sure people were taking all their drugs.
Freedom.
Some people really have no idea what it means.
Most employers have the right to hire anyone they want.
The article says that his kids have been vaccinated for chicken pox. It also says that he’s in favor of vaccines, just not in favor of mandates. The article says that he was not vaccinated as an adult which is weird considering it’s not at all unusual for adults of his age to have never been vaccinated against chicken pox. It also says he’s at home and is doing fine.
Katarina, I had the flu this winter. It did not make me want to get the flu vaccine next winter.
Katarina, you’re example of an uncle or other relative dying of diphtheria in the late 1800’s is not exactly relevant to modern times. A LOT has changed since then.
Katarina, I had the flu this winter. It did not make me want to get the flu vaccine next winter.
Katarina, you’re example of an uncle or other relative dying of diphtheria in the late 1800’s is not exactly relevant to modern times. A LOT has changed since then.
You're one of the few.
Yes, what changed in particular is that there is now a vaccine. Anyway, I was responding to someone who asked how any of us could be responding with all these communicable disease deaths in the past. None of those dead great-uncles have any kids who are posting here, or anywhere else.
In the past you’ve said that you don’t get every single vaccine reccomended so I guess you’re ok with your kids being denied school entry?
Yes, if there was a student who was immune compromised absolutely.
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