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jbognar, you make some very good points. Those laws are what make most Americans fear standing up for their rights in a police encounter -- the simple fact that the police can do whatever they want and that laws exist which can allow them to royally screw us based upon their word only. Changing the laws that you mention would be a good start. This country's crime rate is much higher than most other industrialized western nations and I truly feel that the police and the prison-industrial complex take most of the responsibility for that.
Police can do whatever they want? Police get in trouble and get fired all the time, do you follow current events? Police are no different from anybody else, if they break the law they pay for it. If you mess up on your job making hot dogs you can go to another fast food place and get another job making hot dogs...if you mess up being a cop then you will never work as a law enforcement officer again.
Changing the laws would only allow the country to become worse and make it easier for criminals to commit crime. What kind of insulated world do you all live in? Crime rates are higher here than other industralized nations because people in the U.S. have much greater freedom to do whatever they want and criminals take advantage of that by preying on sheep like you. If you think you can survive and protect yourself from the wolves on your own then that is great, I'd love to see what would happen to the U.S. if the sheepdogs went on strike for a week. The U.S. is so much more diverse than any other nation that you can't compare it's crime rate to other nations. The crime rate is up because we have kids having kids, because we have people not learning right from wrong at an early age, because we have people caught up in living "the street life" and embracing the wrong kind of mentality for success. Nothing the police or government as a whole does can impact or right these wrongs. Those are social problems, not problems with the people out trying to protect people and enforce laws.
WOW!!! Once again the lack of knowledge people are displaying regarding issues such as the law, crime etc... is shocking....The government and police and such can not effect social change on such a broad level! Crime is here and it's here to stay. Crime rates go up and down just like stocks do... People's mentalities have to change. The way people raise their children have to change. Then the world will get better. Cops/prison officials have nothing to do with this.
That's a tough one to watch right there. Thanks for reminding everyone of the sacrifices made in the line of duty. The law enforcement brotherhood certainly doesn't draw the respect and admiration that it should. You guys are doing one of the toughest, most underpaid and underappreciated jobs on the face of the Earth. Thanks for your service to help protect the City of Raleigh. God Bless!
Police can do whatever they want? Police get in trouble and get fired all the time, do you follow current events? Police are no different from anybody else, if they break the law they pay for it. If you mess up on your job making hot dogs you can go to another fast food place and get another job making hot dogs...if you mess up being a cop then you will never work as a law enforcement officer again.
Changing the laws would only allow the country to become worse and make it easier for criminals to commit crime. What kind of insulated world do you all live in? Crime rates are higher here than other industralized nations because people in the U.S. have much greater freedom to do whatever they want and criminals take advantage of that by preying on sheep like you. If you think you can survive and protect yourself from the wolves on your own then that is great, I'd love to see what would happen to the U.S. if the sheepdogs went on strike for a week. The U.S. is so much more diverse than any other nation that you can't compare it's crime rate to other nations. The crime rate is up because we have kids having kids, because we have people not learning right from wrong at an early age, because we have people caught up in living "the street life" and embracing the wrong kind of mentality for success. Nothing the police or government as a whole does can impact or right these wrongs. Those are social problems, not problems with the people out trying to protect people and enforce laws.
WOW!!! Once again the lack of knowledge people are displaying regarding issues such as the law, crime etc... is shocking....The government and police and such can not effect social change on such a broad level! Crime is here and it's here to stay. Crime rates go up and down just like stocks do... People's mentalities have to change. The way people raise their children have to change. Then the world will get better. Cops/prison officials have nothing to do with this.
I appreciate what you do, but this thread is not really about "all cops are bad" There are plenty of goods ones, most cops are. But there are some who abuse there power. Those are the small percentage we are talking about.
Alt-X,
I agree with you that the Checkpoints are designed to help keep the
roads safe, which I'm all for. It's hard to be a parent watching the nightly
news about someone else's child or family member that was killed by a drunk driver.
I also agree with you that the originator of this thread should have just rolled
down the window and complied with officer and then moved along. They are
just doing their jobs and I personally think they don't have some hidden agenda, but I'm a white male, so my view is probably biased.
However, I have an issue with the way you address the people on this thread. Not everyone here is a police officer or a lawyer or a judge. We don't know all the traffic laws and what is legal and what is not at a traffic stop. Instead of calling folks "whiners" and "uneducated" it would be nice if you simply stated the facts of what police officers can do during a traffic stop and then explain why the stops are necessary. It would be far more constructive if you were to explain some accidents you've seen and write about those instead of name calling.
Perhaps if you were to go at it a different way you wouldn't have to say, "What is always appalling to me is the lack of respect people have for law enforcement." I was taught as a child that RESPECT is earned, not freely given. You earn little RESPECT with a post like that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALT-X
You all know nothing about the law. Your lawsuit against the Cary Police Department will go nowhere. Read about legislation on DWI checkpoints and checkpoints in general. Everything CPD did was legit. If you pass through a checkpoint you have to follow the procedure....All checkpoints have specific plans drawn up and that plan is reviewed and signed off on by a magistrate or judge before the DWI checkpoint can be executed. The procedure could be the officers are going to run everyone's license/registration, it could be they are going to try to detect the odor of alcohol on your person, could be everyone has to blow into a PBT (portable breathalyzer device). Once again all of this has been reviewed and signed off on by a judge or magistrate.
You refusing to roll down your window gives the officers reasonable suspicion to detain you and investigate further. You refusing to roll down your window while the officers are out there working a project that has been signed off on by a judge/magistrate makes them think you are trying to hide something. If you had nothing to hide go through like a normal person, do what is required and leave. You brought this on yourself by being uneducated about the law and refusing to comply with it. They don't need a warrant or your consent to search your car if you aren't complying with the law. A law enforcement officer does not need probable cause to initiate a traffic stop. All he needs is reasonable suspicion. You gave that to them by not complying with what they asked you to do at a LAWFUL approved DWI checkpoint.
What is always appalling to me is the lack of respect people have for law enforcement. People who think for whatever reason they are above the law and think certain things don't apply to them. Like I said read up on checkpoints, reasonable suspicion, probable cause, etc... You will learn a lot. It is very obvious by reading your post and others comments that none of you know anything about what is or isn't right when it comes to your rights and the rights of the law and law enforcement.
I applaud the CPD for being out there. All you people complaining about this DWI checkpoint will be complaining next week if your loved one gets hit and killed by a drunk driver. Thanks to MADD (mothers against drunk drivers) for supporting law enforcement officers during these checkpoints.
If it sounds like I'm highly offended I am....I'm used to running into whiney, uneducated people though...
I have to side with the law on this one. I agree, if you were less than cooperative with the police from moment one, then you instantly gave them reason to believe that you had something to hide. Even though you know and proclaim your innocence, you're dealing with people who work in a profession where offenses turn up in the most unexpected ways and places. I just make it a habit to be as cooperative and polite as possible. The sooner the officer finds nothing wrong or at fault with me, the sooner I am on my way.
I don't know specifically about DWI checkpoints (I've actually yet to encounter one), but a lot of agencies in NC do establish what's known as "driver's license" checkpoints. It's unbelieveable how many people are caught with expired licenses, suspended licenses, no seatbelts, unsafe vehicles... outstanding felony warrants (!!!). My best friend, who lives in Wayne County, said he saw a checkpoint once where there were at least 30 cars that had been impounded and parked alongside the road for whatever reasons. That was 30 people out and roaming our roads that morning that had NO business being out there.
I imagine that due to the high number of people migrating to the area from out-of-state, it's probably common for police to run into drivers who don't have operator's licenses or vehicle registrations from matching states. I think there's a time limit (30, 60, 90 days, no idea here) as to how long you have to get everything registered in North Carolina once you establish yourself as a resident.
ALT-X said the following: "They don't need a warrant or your consent to search your car if you aren't complying with the law."
Have you ever heard of the Fourth Amendment?
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. "
ALT-X, you are obviously going to side with the cops on this one. But the fact of the matter is that ALL unwarranted searches are patently UNCONSTITUTIONAL, including the Cary Police Department's DUI checkpoint.
Checkpoints = Fascist and un-American.
Simple as that.
Checkpoints are un-American. They are a soviet-style tactic of intimidation.
I WILL file a lawsuit, and I will go somewhere because I WILL appeal it to the highest court in this land. So don't spout your "law enforcement" rubbish at me. If we repealed drug prohibition, reduced the drinking age to 18, and legalized prostitution, half of y'all would be out of a job anyway, and the nation would be safer too!
Dmwest also makes a good point in that police officers rarely do anything to earn the respect they so brazenly demand. In the few situations where I could have benefited from the help of a police officer, my polite requests for assistance have been turned down. Far more often, I have been the victim of police harassment and rude behavior. And I am a white male. I go into any police encounter with respectful behavior, but I cannot be expected to give up my rights. Officers expect people to be uneducated about their rights and they become boorish and angry when someone asserts their rights.
Police can do whatever they want? Police get in trouble and get fired all the time, do you follow current events? Police are no different from anybody else, if they break the law they pay for it. If you mess up on your job making hot dogs you can go to another fast food place and get another job making hot dogs...if you mess up being a cop then you will never work as a law enforcement officer again.
Changing the laws would only allow the country to become worse and make it easier for criminals to commit crime. What kind of insulated world do you all live in? Crime rates are higher here than other industralized nations because people in the U.S. have much greater freedom to do whatever they want and criminals take advantage of that by preying on sheep like you. If you think you can survive and protect yourself from the wolves on your own then that is great, I'd love to see what would happen to the U.S. if the sheepdogs went on strike for a week. The U.S. is so much more diverse than any other nation that you can't compare it's crime rate to other nations. The crime rate is up because we have kids having kids, because we have people not learning right from wrong at an early age, because we have people caught up in living "the street life" and embracing the wrong kind of mentality for success. Nothing the police or government as a whole does can impact or right these wrongs. Those are social problems, not problems with the people out trying to protect people and enforce laws.
OH PULEASE!!! For every wrongdoing that a cop is held accountable for, how many get away with it? How come I never see cop cars going the speed limit, or using their turn signals?
For some of us, going through a DUI checkpoint is very stressful. We never know whether we're going to accidentally do something that a police officer interprets as 'suspicious', and then subject us to all sorts of crap. We don't understand why we are subjected to this WHEN WE HAVE DONE NOTHING WRONG! And simple courtesies like "please", "thank you", and "I'm sorry for making you wait so long." would go a long way to alleviating that stress.
It's your attitude that I find so horrendous...your thoughts that since you're in law enforcement, you're better than the rest of us. You're the sheepdogs, and we're the lowly sheep, eh? Your job is to keep the law abiding citizens in line, eh?
And who here claimed that the police is the reason why crime is so high in this country? I never said anything like that! Again, you're saying that if we don't agree with you, then the criminals are going to take over. Is that your M.O.? Is that what they teach you in "Police Academy"? "Do as I say or bad things will happen to you"? Unbelievable. Your attitude reeks of 'bully'. We're not sheep, and it's not your job to keep us in line.
Law enforcement is difficult, and we need the best people in it. But we need a way to weed out the good from the bad. The 'blue wall of silence' prevents this. And I've simply heard too many bad stories about cops to trust them. And that's a shame because I truly believe that 90% of cops are good. I just don't know who's going to be one of the 10%. Is it wrong to want checks in place to make sure that I can trust cops?
I don't know specifically about DWI checkpoints (I've actually yet to encounter one), but a lot of agencies in NC do establish what's known as "driver's license" checkpoints. It's unbelieveable how many people are caught with expired licenses, suspended licenses, no seatbelts, unsafe vehicles... outstanding felony warrants (!!!). My best friend, who lives in Wayne County, said he saw a checkpoint once where there were at least 30 cars that had been impounded and parked alongside the road for whatever reasons. That was 30 people out and roaming our roads that morning that had NO business being out there.
I don't think anyone disagrees that these checkpoints are effective. But some consider the tactic as a violation of 'unreasonable search and seizure'. Just because it's effective doesn't mean it should be done. Here are some even more effective ways for cops to catch criminals....
1) Allow them to detain and interrogate random people on the street without probable cause. And make people carry around 'papers'.
2) Allow them to enter anyone's house without any probable cause or warrant.
But we don't allow these methods even though they would be effective.
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Thanks for reminding everyone of the sacrifices made in the line of duty. The law enforcement brotherhood certainly doesn't draw the respect and admiration that it should. You guys are doing one of the toughest, most underpaid and underappreciated jobs on the face of the Earth. Thanks for your service to help protect the City of Raleigh. God Bless!
tone
Yea right...
