The Democratic party has moved frighteningly far left in a very short time and it is terrifying (drugs, illegals)
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I try my best to avoid hyperbole because so many people nowadays engage in especially when it comes to politics but I'm sincerely worried about how incredibly far left the party has gone and even more so how quickly it has occurred. FWIW, I'm an Independent. Didn't vote for either candidate in 2016
This isn't to say that the Republican party is blameless either btw. They spend like drunken sailors too and have dropped the ball on reigning in spending when given majorities in congress so this isn't a zero sum, one sided complaint against the Democratic party as much as it is sincere concern about HOW FAR left they've gone. Throughout our country's history each party has lurched a little left or right as the whole political spectrum has drifted slowly but steadily left over time. Up until a few years ago the Democratic party while strongly liberal was still reasonably practical and at least still within the bounds of the mainstream political spectrum of the country as a whole. Democrats more or less still believed in and respected our Constitutional Republic. The last 2 years however? Wow!!! The party is starting to advocate for and normalize extreme and unprecedented changes to both the constitution and government's involvement in almost every aspect of our economy and individual rights as U.S. citizens. I understand many on the left were shocked that Trump got elected and are appalled at his style, the way he carries himself, and his policies but there's nothing to suggest that the country is collapsing or going to collapse as a result of his presidency. You can hate him and refuse to accept and exercise your constitutional right to protest him but he's done nothing to suggest the country won't survive his term as president. If anything, the economy continues to improve and he's kept his promise to dial back our military involvement in the Middle East which should at least ease your fears that he's going to go on a war binge. Last but not least, despite the left's irrational fears of him being a dictator and shredding everyone's constitutional rights and erasing "norms", he hasn't. In fact, if anything he has actually supported more freedoms and civil rights if you're consider the historic and bi-partisan prison reform bill he worked with Democrats on and signed into law. Unfortunately, I'm not sure the Democratic party can justifiable say the same thing which brings me to the main point of this thread.
The far left fringe is leading the Democratic party to a dangerous place. Consider the following "norms" that are being challenged and threatened by the far left and increasingly the party as a whole:
1) Proposals to stack the Supreme Court - A growing number of Democratic presidential candidates and leaders in the party are in favor of...stack the Supreme Court. A court which in it's current configuration has served the country well for over 200 hundred years conveniently "doesn't work" anymore now that it might always rule in favor of the left's interest so it must be changed. Incredibly short sighted move that would cause chaos with precedents and the rule of law in the country.
2) Proposals to end the Electoral college - Again, an election system that has served us very well throughout our history. The founders brilliantly set it up the way they did representation was spread across the country in order to avoid having all political and electoral power concentration in a handful of large population centers. Two of the last three presidents (and only 4 in history) who just happened to be despised by Democrats managed to win the presidency despite losing the popular vote. Everyone knew the rules going into each election and campaigned and fairly won each election but because it didn't work out a couple of times for Democrats they want to change a system that has served us well for over 200 years.
3) Proposals to lower the voting age to 16 and consider possibly allowing illegal immigrants to vote in federal elections - Why stop at 16? Why not lower it to age 13? Againother proposal that simply doesn't make a lot of sense considering 16 year olds have had a very limited life experience and in almost every case no "real world" experience trying to make a living and/or supported a family themselves. They're still developing mentally and physically and generally speaking aren't mature enough to understand the implications of their vote. From a practical standpoint, I suppose it's not a totally ridiculous proposal. From a cynical standpoint, it's an obvious and transparent attempt by Democrats to create a large crop of new voters that will most like vote Democratic.
4) Proposal to allow illegal or undocumented immigrations the right to vote in federal elections - In fairness to Democrats, this is mostly being pushed by the far left wing of the party. The problem though is that the far left wing is currently driving the party and putting pressure on moderate Dems who still at least for the moment run the party. Again, not saying the Democratic party itself officially supports this, but the fact it's even being brought up publically as a serious proposal by even a single representative at all is nuts. That is a red line with most America citizens that if crossed I worry could lead the country to the brink of another civil war.
5) Support for open borders - I realize that term infuriates most Democrats but a refusal to acknowledge the reality of our broken immigration system and an indifference towards or refusal to get serious about fixing it and properly securing our southern border is by default an admission that Democrats are ok with open borders. The current policy of detaining tens of thousands of illegal immigrants crossing the border, releasing them into our country, and expecting them to pinkie swear to follow the law by showing up later for a
mandatory court date that only about 6% end up for, and considering that a "deportation" is insane. It's "catch and release" or de facto open borders and anyone who is ok with such a system is for open borders
6) Refusal to support a reasonable federal voter ID law - I'm sorry, but this position makes no sense to me. We as citizens are required to show a valid driver's license or valid non-driver ID card to identify ourselves for countless every day transactions. The argument that requiring citizens to find a couple of hours of one day to go to their county courthouse or local dmv and buy a dirt cheap (or in some cases free) photo ID (driver's license, not driver ID card, etc) and/or property register to vote equates to "voter suppression" or creates an undue hardship is patently absurd. A reasonable argument can be made that voting be made for more convenient and more accessible but not the argument that requiring a photo ID to vote is unreasonable. Presenting a valid photo ID of yourself when you vote and haven't them check you against the registered voter rolls is the single biggest way we protect our own vote. Arguing it's unnecessary is ridiculous.
I could go on but you get the point for now. I didn't even get to some of the even bigger issues but will try to add them later when I have more time. I know many on this board will strongly disagree and others will get pissed off and not even bother refuting the points but I'm just calling it like I see it and trying to give you one independent's perspective. Hopefully, it will at very least start a healthy conversation.
Our current two party system works better when both political parties reign in the far left and far right factions of their respective parties and at the moment it looks like the Republicans are doing a much better job of reigning in the radical wing of their party than the Democrats are. When the radicals in either party appear to be taking over their respective party I think it's good idea to point it out. Until we have a viable third party in this country we need both parties to be healthy to keep the our system from cracking apart. Just my humble opinion.
The Democrats are determined to destroy America and turn it into Venezuela and won't stop until they achieve their aim....because of their numbers, I think they will succeed in killing america, only question is how long we have left.
I try my best to avoid hyperbole because so many people nowadays engage in especially when it comes to politics but I'm sincerely worried about how incredibly far left the party has gone and even more so how quickly it has occurred. FWIW, I'm an Independent. Didn't vote for either candidate in 2016
This isn't to say that the Republican party is blameless either btw. They spend like drunken sailors too and have dropped the ball on reigning in spending when given majorities in congress so this isn't a zero sum, one sided complaint against the Democratic party as much as it is sincere concern about HOW FAR left they've gone. Throughout our country's history each party has lurched a little left or right as the whole political spectrum has drifted slowly but steadily left over time. Up until a few years ago the Democratic party while strongly liberal was still reasonably practical and at least still within the bounds of the mainstream political spectrum of the country as a whole. Democrats more or less still believed in and respected our Constitutional Republic. The last 2 years however? Wow!!! The party is starting to advocate for and normalize extreme and unprecedented changes to both the constitution and government's involvement in almost every aspect of our economy and individual rights as U.S. citizens. I understand many on the left were shocked that Trump got elected and are appalled at his style, the way he carries himself, and his policies but there's nothing to suggest that the country is collapsing or going to collapse as a result of his presidency. You can hate him and refuse to accept and exercise your constitutional right to protest him but he's done nothing to suggest the country won't survive his term as president. If anything, the economy continues to improve and he's kept his promise to dial back our military involvement in the Middle East which should at least ease your fears that he's going to go on a war binge. Last but not least, despite the left's irrational fears of him being a dictator and shredding everyone's constitutional rights and erasing "norms", he hasn't. In fact, if anything he has actually supported more freedoms and civil rights if you're consider the historic and bi-partisan prison reform bill he worked with Democrats on and signed into law. Unfortunately, I'm not sure the Democratic party can justifiable say the same thing which brings me to the main point of this thread.
The far left fringe is leading the Democratic party to a dangerous place. Consider the following "norms" that are being challenged and threatened by the far left and increasingly the party as a whole:
1) Proposals to stack the Supreme Court - A growing number of Democratic presidential candidates and leaders in the party are in favor of...stack the Supreme Court. A court which in it's current configuration has served the country well for over 200 hundred years conveniently "doesn't work" anymore now that it might always rule in favor of the left's interest so it must be changed. Incredibly short sighted move that would cause chaos with precedents and the rule of law in the country.
2) Proposals to end the Electoral college - Again, an election system that has served us very well throughout our history. The founders brilliantly set it up the way they did representation was spread across the country in order to avoid having all political and electoral power concentration in a handful of large population centers. Two of the last three presidents (and only 4 in history) who just happened to be despised by Democrats managed to win the presidency despite losing the popular vote. Everyone knew the rules going into each election and campaigned and fairly won each election but because it didn't work out a couple of times for Democrats they want to change a system that has served us well for over 200 years.
3) Proposals to lower the voting age to 16 and consider possibly allowing illegal immigrants to vote in federal elections - Why stop at 16? Why not lower it to age 13? Againother proposal that simply doesn't make a lot of sense considering 16 year olds have had a very limited life experience and in almost every case no "real world" experience trying to make a living and/or supported a family themselves. They're still developing mentally and physically and generally speaking aren't mature enough to understand the implications of their vote. From a practical standpoint, I suppose it's not a totally ridiculous proposal. From a cynical standpoint, it's an obvious and transparent attempt by Democrats to create a large crop of new voters that will most like vote Democratic.
4) Proposal to allow illegal or undocumented immigrations the right to vote in federal elections - In fairness to Democrats, this is mostly being pushed by the far left wing of the party. The problem though is that the far left wing is currently driving the party and putting pressure on moderate Dems who still at least for the moment run the party. Again, not saying the Democratic party itself officially supports this, but the fact it's even being brought up publically as a serious proposal by even a single representative at all is nuts. That is a red line with most America citizens that if crossed I worry could lead the country to the brink of another civil war.
5) Support for open borders - I realize that term infuriates most Democrats but a refusal to acknowledge the reality of our broken immigration system and an indifference towards or refusal to get serious about fixing it and properly securing our southern border is by default an admission that Democrats are ok with open borders. The current policy of detaining tens of thousands of illegal immigrants crossing the border, releasing them into our country, and expecting them to pinkie swear to follow the law by showing up later for a
mandatory court date that only about 6% end up for, and considering that a "deportation" is insane. It's "catch and release" or de facto open borders and anyone who is ok with such a system is for open borders
6) Refusal to support a reasonable federal voter ID law - I'm sorry, but this position makes no sense to me. We as citizens are required to show a valid driver's license or valid non-driver ID card to identify ourselves for countless every day transactions. The argument that requiring citizens to find a couple of hours of one day to go to their county courthouse or local dmv and buy a dirt cheap (or in some cases free) photo ID (driver's license, not driver ID card, etc) and/or property register to vote equates to "voter suppression" or creates an undue hardship is patently absurd. A reasonable argument can be made that voting be made for more convenient and more accessible but not the argument that requiring a photo ID to vote is unreasonable. Presenting a valid photo ID of yourself when you vote and haven't them check you against the registered voter rolls is the single biggest way we protect our own vote. Arguing it's unnecessary is ridiculous.
I could go on but you get the point for now. I didn't even get to some of the even bigger issues but will try to add them later when I have more time. I know many on this board will strongly disagree and others will get pissed off and not even bother refuting the points but I'm just calling it like I see it and trying to give you one independent's perspective. Hopefully, it will at very least start a healthy conversation.
Our current two party system works better when both political parties reign in the far left and far right factions of their respective parties and at the moment it looks like the Republicans are doing a much better job of reigning in the radical wing of their party than the Democrats are. When the radicals in either party appear to be taking over their respective party I think it's good idea to point it out. Until we have a viable third party in this country we need both parties to be healthy to keep the our system from cracking apart. Just my humble opinion.
Personally, I believe it is a tactic that they've been using for years, and your right, the Right does it as well, but I will say this....I have a whole lot of friends who are dems...and let me tell you, the dems who I've known since I was a kid are certainly not as off center as these people are today...and here is the sad part, (Keep in mind, the republicans are the same) the sad part is, unlike you, a whole lot of people refuse to see this.
I read an article yesterday, where a Republican representative stated that Social Security is a right to have. Now anyone who makes that statement doesn't have any idea what is going on. Here's why, We, everyone, has a certain amount of money taken out of our checks each week to PAY for social security. It isn't a right, it's earned...and they want to now give social security to illegals. That isn't going to sit well with Americans who know what's going on.
Kids today are spoiled, including my grand daughter who has no interest in getting a job and working for what she wants...working teaches a kid so much about life...and parents are taking away that knowledge from their own children, by allowing this. So, they don't have a clue...about what is really going on out there, including politics.
The politicians are running scared b/c a lot of people are sick of them...they promise you the world, and once in office forget about it...all their doing is trying to stir up votes. They don't want short term limits, are you kidding me? That would most certainly cut off their cash cow that they've been enjoying all these years.
I believe with all certainty, in the saying, "birds of a feather", meaning, you can get voted into politics with all certainty that your going to try your best to make things better for "the people". But when you get in there and see the corruption, and how they are benefiting b/c of it, you start to be the same way, how could you not?
Yes, the dems are crazy, but maybe not so crazy...as republicans in politics are a bit more suttle, but they learn and know the best ways to get voted in, is to promise free be's and why? Because people all over this country have become lazy and thinks the government should handle everything...
It isn't about left vs. right as the media portrays it. It's about populism/oustiderism vs corporaism/insiderism. We need two good outsider candidates in Trump vs. Bernie. All the others are compromised.
It isn't about left vs. right as the media portrays it. It's about populism/oustiderism vs corporaism/insiderism. We need two good outsider candidates in Trump vs. Bernie. All the others are compromised.
Two old men that don't represent the core of this country by any stretch. We have yet to see a candidate that is a practical centrist with the ability to get elected. It's largely because these days American citizens would rather be entertained that represented by a rational leader.
Two old men that don't represent the core of this country by any stretch. We have yet to see a candidate that is a practical centrist with the ability to get elected. It's largely because these days American citizens would rather be entertained that represented by a rational leader.
Trump played his cards right and appealed to the masses that wanted controlled legal immigration instituted again in this country. He was going to start by building a wall....
Well, you hear so many people (and this should prove to you and everyone else, how intellect is fading) people make ridiculous statements like, "the wall isn't going to solve the problem". Well of course it won't...who ever thinks it will is out of their minds. However, what the wall WILL do, is cut back on the inflow...you've got to guard the wall, and when it is breached, you study how it was breached and set up another precaution by learning from the criminals who breached the wall. Now you put guards along the wall, just like we have along the border...then you implement a working immigration process and keep watch on those who are here on Green Cards...
I voted for Trump...but I dislike his tactics very much...meaning, his big mouth...how he represents us with his illogical mouth....he loves to brag...and put others down...but what I have noticed, is, he has thrown out to his votes crumbs and accomplished a lot of his promises, knowing full well, if he didn't have the backing he wouldn't be able to accomplish what he wanted to...and there is where the shoe fits....a lot of people refuse to understand, one man cannot do it, b/c we have a Senate and Congress in place, to make certain our Presidents do not pull our country down....so, my point is, get those candidates out of there, stop voting and re-voting people in there who are corrupt and appeasing both sides....men like Crazy Cruz, and the rest of them...stop voting them in....the same with Dems...get them the hell out of there...
What you want to respresent you, is someone who encourages and believes in educating the poor to succeed, teaching them how crazy it is to ruin your life, by becoming a mother at 15. Encourage the poor to get an education, teaching them moral values, not organized religions but moral values and how to problem solve...how to own mistakes, to move on...to encourage common sense....granted it's a much slower process but in the end, you heal society by coming out with more intelligent people.
Intelligence isn't something that is above anyone....the kind of intelligence I'm talking about is what people have lost...they no longer realize how to provide and accomplish so much more by preventative maintenance, by spending a little more so that in the end, they are ahead of the game. Investing in our youth...teaching them the importance of just a few things, education, awareness, how to problem solve, the importance of accomplishments, and moral values....
In the end, your going to turn out much better leaders....Trump is doing ok, but his mouth (which represents all of us) is way to unfiltered...and he gives dems all the more reason to put him down...where other presidents know better...Trump does not...
And if your a dem, your going to twist and turn every single word he utters to make people hate him even more...in other words, he is giving them ammunition. And he has lied....he has done nothing for our vets...however, at the end of the day, folks, it depends who is on your side, so it's best not to make enemies...
Now, the other problem is, politics is so corrupt, one man cannot accomplish much...no matter how much he promises...it's up to the people to vote in reputable people who will back your leader...so Trump was screwed from the very beginning. No one wanted him in there, they all feared him...b/c they feared he would let the masses know what is really going on, and in a lot of ways he has...to a certain degree.
Trump is narcissistic...he wants to brag and wants to be loved...which will be his down fall....otherwise, he isn't going a bad job...
Democrats are not moving far left off the map and true Republicans are still conservative.
Trumpers if you have any desire to think independently, this is the moment in your history. The OP and many posters here and on other social media sites are out in force and doubling down to keep you worshipping the false idol Donald.
The leaders of the party of Trump have failed at keeping rational intelligent Republicans in their fold. The Trump movement and Trumpism is not growing and has lost steam actually, as evidenced by the 2018 election. Most of the information you are being made to swallow is propaganda filled with repetitive lies, fear mongering and classic gaslighting.
Trump knows he is losing some of whom he has fooled for quite a while. That is why the citizens of the USA are being bombarded by more and more calculated outlandish information meant to maintain influence over the remaining Trumper's feelings, beliefs and actions. Why do you think he has told Americans that our press and government institutions are your enemy and out to get you. They are not, Trump is.
Trump talking points, talking points and more talking points. Do they make sense if your eyes are open and you are allowed to think? Democrats are not moving far left off the map and true Republicans are still conservative. Trump's desire is to take Americans down. Why? Is that the third party you want OP? Well it exists. In full view and declining because the message is not palatable or truthful. Americans want truthfulness, honor, dignity and integrity at the heart of their government. Trumpism lacks these qualities and demonizes these values...not intelligent conservatives or liberals. The Trump Party. Think about it.
Last edited by corpgypsy; 03-21-2019 at 05:59 AM..
(Long post)
1) Proposals to stack the Supreme Court - A growing number of Democratic presidential candidates and leaders in the party are in favor of...stack the Supreme Court. A court which in it's current configuration has served the country well for over 200 hundred years conveniently "doesn't work" anymore now that it might always rule in favor of the left's interest so it must be changed. Incredibly short sighted move that would cause chaos with precedents and the rule of law in the country.
2) Proposals to end the Electoral college - Again, an election system that has served us very well throughout our history. The founders brilliantly set it up the way they did representation was spread across the country in order to avoid having all political and electoral power concentration in a handful of large population centers. Two of the last three presidents (and only 4 in history) who just happened to be despised by Democrats managed to win the presidency despite losing the popular vote. Everyone knew the rules going into each election and campaigned and fairly won each election but because it didn't work out a couple of times for Democrats they want to change a system that has served us well for over 200 years.
3) Proposals to lower the voting age to 16 and consider possibly allowing illegal immigrants to vote in federal elections - Why stop at 16? Why not lower it to age 13? Againother proposal that simply doesn't make a lot of sense considering 16 year olds have had a very limited life experience and in almost every case no "real world" experience trying to make a living and/or supported a family themselves. They're still developing mentally and physically and generally speaking aren't mature enough to understand the implications of their vote. From a practical standpoint, I suppose it's not a totally ridiculous proposal. From a cynical standpoint, it's an obvious and transparent attempt by Democrats to create a large crop of new voters that will most like vote Democratic.
4) Proposal to allow illegal or undocumented immigrations the right to vote in federal elections - In fairness to Democrats, this is mostly being pushed by the far left wing of the party. The problem though is that the far left wing is currently driving the party and putting pressure on moderate Dems who still at least for the moment run the party. Again, not saying the Democratic party itself officially supports this, but the fact it's even being brought up publically as a serious proposal by even a single representative at all is nuts. That is a red line with most America citizens that if crossed I worry could lead the country to the brink of another civil war.
5) Support for open borders - I realize that term infuriates most Democrats but a refusal to acknowledge the reality of our broken immigration system and an indifference towards or refusal to get serious about fixing it and properly securing our southern border is by default an admission that Democrats are ok with open borders. The current policy of detaining tens of thousands of illegal immigrants crossing the border, releasing them into our country, and expecting them to pinkie swear to follow the law by showing up later for a
mandatory court date that only about 6% end up for, and considering that a "deportation" is insane. It's "catch and release" or de facto open borders and anyone who is ok with such a system is for open borders
6) Refusal to support a reasonable federal voter ID law - I'm sorry, but this position makes no sense to me. We as citizens are required to show a valid driver's license or valid non-driver ID card to identify ourselves for countless every day transactions. The argument that requiring citizens to find a couple of hours of one day to go to their county courthouse or local dmv and buy a dirt cheap (or in some cases free) photo ID (driver's license, not driver ID card, etc) and/or property register to vote equates to "voter suppression" or creates an undue hardship is patently absurd. A reasonable argument can be made that voting be made for more convenient and more accessible but not the argument that requiring a photo ID to vote is unreasonable. Presenting a valid photo ID of yourself when you vote and haven't them check you against the registered voter rolls is the single biggest way we protect our own vote. Arguing it's unnecessary is ridiculous.
I could go on but you get the point for now. I didn't even get to some of the even bigger issues but will try to add them later when I have more time. I know many on this board will strongly disagree and others will get pissed off and not even bother refuting the points but I'm just calling it like I see it and trying to give you one independent's perspective. Hopefully, it will at very least start a healthy conversation.
Our current two party system works better when both political parties reign in the far left and far right factions of their respective parties and at the moment it looks like the Republicans are doing a much better job of reigning in the radical wing of their party than the Democrats are. When the radicals in either party appear to be taking over their respective party I think it's good idea to point it out. Until we have a viable third party in this country we need both parties to be healthy to keep the our system from cracking apart. Just my humble opinion.
1) Agreed and I dont like the current SCOTUS and dont like the direction it seems headed in.
2) I would like to see the EC amended to some form of proportional, perhaps stilted proportional but we need the GOP to run in CA and Dems to run in TX. Campaigning in 10 states only is bad.
3) Agreed
4) Agreed
5) Agreed
6) Agreed, but said ID should be FREE. The law should also allow for interested parties to help for example old people get said ID. Also needs to be implemented at least 1 year from the general election. I do agree with the left that the closing of liberal polling places is suppression and needs to be reversed. (Was it GA that was the case I heard?)
So what do you care about what Trump said about it?
What's the point of bringing it up?
The OP points out it is a far-left thing to say (so far its frightening), so it raises the obvious question whether or not Trump has far-left ideals.
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