Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Well- You could buy 100 acres or so, raise your own food, generate your own energy via wind, drill a well, and make your own clothing. I have 500 acres where there is plenty of fish, deer, turkey, and the ability to grow your food. You could draw your own water, make your own soap, eat everything you kill and raise. Have at it if you want to do so. I think you would be ready to give up after three days.
Have you ever processed and dried your own meat? Ever make pemmican? Make some pemmican in your kitchen and tell me how much you would love living off that for months at a time. If you do attempt to make pemmican, render the fat outside, as it will smell up your house.
They had a "reality tv show" several years ago in which several families, all of whom claimed to be very self sufficient, were observed doing so in a mid 1800s environment. All of them struggled, particularly with food and all failed.
If you have ever spent any time out in the actual wilderness, you know how extremely difficult such a life can be. One devotes 100% of your time to growing/processing food, getting water, repairing things, and making things for survival. Ever try to cut up a tree with an axe only (no chainsaw)? It takes all day. You have to fashion and make everything you have not carried in, which can be challenging. Such stuff is "fun" when you don't have to rely upon it for survival. Using horses for farm work is a royal pain in the ass and is back breaking labor. My dad and uncles used horses for some work in the 1930s and do not remember it fondly.
Such a life, which sounds idyllic, is actually very, very hard work which essentially no people would enjoy. Don't you think that if given a choice, the American Indians would have chosen to get their food from a grocery store and popped it in a microwave, rather than hunting, processing, and cooking their food? Don't you think they would rather have bought clothes off a rack rather than make them from buffalo hides?
People in the past endured a "simple life" because they had to do so. If given the choice, they would choose a much easier modern day life, which actually allows leisure time.
You have no idea what you’re talking about and are just rambling.
I want a market where people buy things they didn’t make, and I’m not looking to live on my own. In fact if you clicked on the link you’d see these new indegenous folk would have modern functions/appliances while participating in activities like fishing and camping.
The concept of a society with less wealth and a smaller market along with none industrial methods of food cultivation (permaculture) that lets the ecosystem prosper has nothing to do with your scare tactics.
Bison kept the grass fields healthy and offered Natives food and building material. The savage Americans slaughtered them for market demand and the evil American consumer took it all for their high living standards.
Damn them all.
No only the white males. Get your self guilt history right. Only white male Europeans were savage and evil. All others were nobel and in sync with the natural world.
You have no idea what you’re talking about and are just rambling.
I want a market where people buy things they didn’t make, and I’m not looking to live on my own. In fact if you clicked on the link you’d see these new indegenous folk would have modern functions/appliances while participating in activities like fishing and camping.
The concept of a society with less wealth and a smaller market along with none industrial methods of food cultivation (permaculture) that lets the ecosystem prosper has nothing to do with your scare tactics.
You do realize, don't you, that if everyone tried to currently "live off the land", that it would be an environmental and ecological disaster. This infantile notion of yours is amusing, but is something that a young child might envision and lacks any credibility or chance of implementation whatsoever. Wake up- the real world is right outside and your fantasy life will not happen.
Small farms/plots of land are extremely inefficient and would reduce food production, raise prices, and lower quality. People looking to burn wood would deforest what forests we have left.
Your "ecosystem" would be an environmental cesspool.
You are living in some delusional fantasy land that cannot be achieved. You pine for the "halcyon days" of yesteryear, but those days were much harder and had much lower life expectancies. Perhaps you should devote your dream time to more practical endeavors, and ones in which you will actually participate, rather than fashioning yourself as some form of self appointed monarch who wants to dictate a bizarre set of values to everyone else?
Why is it that lefties and commies want everyone to experience suffering, lower standards of living, and scientific regression? That is why liberals should be called "regressives", as they will only be happy when everyone is living in mud huts, burning animal dung for fuel, and living off a few rotten potatoes.
You do realize, don't you, that if everyone tried to currently "live off the land", that it would be an environmental and ecological disaster. This infantile notion of yours is amusing, but is something that a young child might envision and lacks any credibility or chance of implementation whatsoever. Wake up- the real world is right outside and your fantasy life will not happen.
Small farms/plots of land are extremely inefficient and would reduce food production, raise prices, and lower quality. People looking to burn wood would deforest what forests we have left.
Your "ecosystem" would be an environmental cesspool.
You are living in some delusional fantasy land that cannot be achieved. You pine for the "halcyon days" of yesteryear, but those days were much harder and had much lower life expectancies. Perhaps you should devote your dream time to more practical endeavors, and ones in which you will actually participate, rather than fashioning yourself as some form of self appointed monarch who wants to dictate a bizarre set of values to everyone else?
Why is it that lefties and commies want everyone to experience suffering, lower standards of living, and scientific regression? That is why liberals should be called "regressives", as they will only be happy when everyone is living in mud huts, burning animal dung for fuel, and living off a few rotten potatoes.
The problem you have here is you think people who want to promote sustainability should do it themselves, but that doesn't matter is mainstream society is dictating the terms to everyone.
I'm fine with markets and buying goods you can't make, but I don't want a corporate economy the concentrates wealth and financial power into the hands of a few to organize society (decrease freedom) to increase wealth.
That wealth is not worth it, a lower standard of living would be better for everyone, and a political confederacy would make more people free (preferably a global one). And public transportation rather than personal cars.
The problem you have here is you think people who want to promote sustainability should do it themselves, but that doesn't matter is mainstream society is dictating the terms to everyone.
I'm fine with markets and buying goods you can't make, but I don't want a corporate economy the concentrates wealth and financial power into the hands of a few to organize society (decrease freedom) to increase wealth.
That wealth is not worth it, a lower standard of living would be better for everyone, and a political confederacy would make more people free (preferably a global one). And public transportation rather than personal cars.
You want all the advantages of an industrial society and none of the disadvantages.
You pine for a lower standard of living and less wealth. Did it ever occur to you that others do not share your views? Why do you think your views have greater merit or value than those who disagree with you?
If you want a "sustainable life", it starts with you. Such a life will never be dictated from above without disasterous results (see Mao's Cultural Revolution and Pol Pot's rural initiative).
The greatest mass murderers of the 20th century, ironically, shared your views and implemented them, much to the displeasure of the millions who died.
You want all the advantages of an industrial society and none of the disadvantages.
You pine for a lower standard of living and less wealth. Did it ever occur to you that others do not share your views? Why do you think your views have greater merit or value than those who disagree with you?
If you want a "sustainable life", it starts with you. Such a life will never be dictated from above without disasterous results (see Mao's Cultural Revolution and Pol Pot's rural initiative).
The greatest mass murderers of the 20th century, ironically, shared your views and implemented them, much to the displeasure of the millions who died.
As for pol pot, you are just trying to make a straw man argument. Pol Pot forced people into labor camps, and anyways any forced change of the economy doesn't end well.
Forcibly ruralizing or industrializing and economy ends up killing many just like it did in colonial countries, the USSR, etc.
Anyways a rural economy is not necessarily by itself good since most farming methods destroy the local ecosystem (permaculture is different).
If we want a free and equal society we should organize property based on usage (land usage for example), end corporate ownership of production, and decentralize politics (confederacy) to keep local control over resources. There should still be a central government to keep disputes in check, organize, etc.
But it is important for society to not fall into mass industrialization as it removes freedom of the individuals in exchange for mass organization of society.
Any system I support won't be less free than our current system. We have a corporate-state system that is enforced and mandated just like any other system, do you ever complain the people are forced to live in such a system.
I just want to reform the system so that greater liberty, economic fairness, and ecological growth (not economic) is promoted.
That wealth is not worth it, a lower standard of living would be better for everyone, and a political confederacy would make more people free (preferably a global one). And public transportation rather than personal cars.
So are you getting rid of your phone, TV, computer, internet, car and turning off your furnace and electric?
If not, you are the problem.
Reminds me of this woman I worked with complaining to me about how athletes make so much money and teachers don't. Now, I am not into team sports in any way so that makes this funnier.
I asked her if she watched games on TV, Who her favorite team/players were, if she went to games or owned their jerseys...she answered enthusiastically yes to each question...I told her SHE was why they make the money they do...then asked her why she didn't buy/wear the jersey of her favorite teacher.
You have no idea what you’re talking about and are just rambling.
I want a market where people buy things they didn’t make, and I’m not looking to live on my own. In fact if you clicked on the link you’d see these new indegenous folk would have modern functions/appliances while participating in activities like fishing and camping.
The concept of a society with less wealth and a smaller market along with none industrial methods of food cultivation (permaculture) that lets the ecosystem prosper has nothing to do with your scare tactics.
So are you getting rid of your phone, TV, computer, internet, car and turning off your furnace and electric?
If not, you are the problem.
Reminds me of this woman I worked with complaining to me about how athletes make so much money and teachers don't. Now, I am not into team sports in any way so that makes this funnier.
I asked her if she watched games on TV, Who her favorite team/players were, if she went to games or owned their jerseys...she answered enthusiastically yes to each question...I told her SHE was why they make the money they do...then asked her why she didn't buy/wear the jersey of her favorite teacher.
I don't have a tv. I have a flip phone, computer, internet, and car (though only out of necessity, I'd love to live in a modeled society that wasn't purposefully built to require cars).
I have no problem with heating, the internet, or any of these technologies. I just want to change how they are applied and who/what manages them and distributes them (not profit seeking corporations).
Because obviously you have nothing to say in response to my comment or as to why it is wrong.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
