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Old 03-25-2019, 10:40 AM
 
Location: Berwick, Penna.
16,214 posts, read 11,271,446 times
Reputation: 20827

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
Oh here you are gravely mistaken friend, I am one of the few people in this world that love America.

I love the forests, the valley, the open spirit of freedom, the ancient history, and the will of the land ??. I love America with a deep passion and it pains me to see its destruction at the hands of greed and fear.

A people giving up their freedom in return for protection and selling their lands for more money. It is a poison deep within the well of the American spirit submitting all to savagery.
Yep!, you love America.

But you resent the open economy that provides us with a high standard of living,

And you seek to turn the clock back to a time when "less to go around" made us all more envious and resentful,

And you fail to recognize that among the world's 15-or-so "tested" democracies (all transfers of power via free elections for the past 100 years or more), no member of that group has since taken up the sword against another member.

You really don't have much grasp of what you're upset about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
Democracy only means liberal free market economy. Yugoslavia had more democracy than the west and they weren't included in international liberal IR theory.

The truth is that I don't want to turn the clock back, I want to turn it forward so that we can have sustainable models for natural farming and organization without centralized capital which provides people with endless stuff, jealousy, and meaninglessness.

I fight against that evil, you stand by it. The imperialism that comes with it, it is all destructive.
Just tell us all how you, and your handful of like-minded friends how you're going to run things when lower living standards have to be imposed. Suburban Suzie Snowflake and all the kiddies who think civilization began with the invention of the cell phone (let alone the flush toilet) aren't going to like it. And neither will the millions in the industrializing Third World who are looking forward to what they see as their fair share of expanding prosperity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by supfromthesite View Post
The two have literally nothing to do with each other at all. You can have a democracy that has any kind of economy and you can have a liberal free market economy run by a monarchy, run by anarchism, run by an oligarchy. I repeat. The two terms have literally nothing to do with each other.
There may be despotisms where the economy is relatively open, but there is no example of a tested democracy (as defined above) resorting to aggression against another tested democracy; (police actions against international thugs such as Saddam Hussein are another matter).

Last edited by 2nd trick op; 03-25-2019 at 11:14 AM..
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Old 03-25-2019, 10:45 AM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,381,692 times
Reputation: 4831
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd trick op View Post
Yep!, you love America.

But you resent the open economy that provides us with a high standard of living,

And you seek to turn the clock back to a time when "less to go around" made us all more envious and resentful,

And you fail to recognize that among the world's 15-or-so "tested" democracies (all transfers of power via free elections for the past 100 years or more), no member of that group has since taken up the sword against another member.

You really don't have much grasp of what you're upset about.
Democracy only means liberal free market economy. Yugoslavia had more democracy than the west and they weren't included in international liberal IR theory.

The truth is that I don't want to turn the clock back, I want to turn it forward so that we can have sustainable models for natural farming and organization without centralized capital which provides people with endless stuff, jealousy, and meaninglessness.

I fight against that evil, you stand by it. The imperialism that comes with it, it is all destructive.
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Old 03-25-2019, 10:46 AM
 
Location: CasaMo
15,972 posts, read 9,349,918 times
Reputation: 18547
I think Mueller needs to investigate. Trump's ancestors just may have been involved. And just who did they collude with to make this slaughter happen?
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Old 03-25-2019, 10:47 AM
 
3,950 posts, read 2,958,117 times
Reputation: 3796
Quote:
Democracy only means liberal free market economy
The two have literally nothing to do with each other at all. You can have a democracy that has any kind of economy and you can have a liberal free market economy run by a monarchy, run by anarchism, run by an oligarchy. I repeat. The two terms have literally nothing to do with each other.
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Old 03-25-2019, 10:49 AM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,381,692 times
Reputation: 4831
Quote:
Originally Posted by supfromthesite View Post
The two have literally nothing to do with each other at all. You can have a democracy that has any kind of economy and you can have a liberal free market economy run by a monarchy, run by anarchism, run by an oligarchy. I repeat. The two terms have literally nothing to do with each other.
I know I absolutely agree with you.

I was saying 'democracy' in terms what liberal IR theory means just accumulated to free market economics.

Places with more democracy like work place democracy or direct local democracy are not considered as part of the theory.
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Old 03-25-2019, 10:51 AM
 
3,950 posts, read 2,958,117 times
Reputation: 3796
So are you trying to say America has a liberal free market economy but not democracy? Laughable if so. There is nothing free about our markets. By some sources the Scandinavian "socialist utopias" that Bernie Sanders talks about have more economic freedom.
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Old 03-25-2019, 10:53 AM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,381,692 times
Reputation: 4831
Quote:
Originally Posted by supfromthesite View Post
So are you trying to say America has a liberal free market economy but not democracy? Laughable if so. There is nothing free about our markets. By some sources the Scandinavian "socialist utopias" that Bernie Sanders talks about have more economic freedom.
No, just read my post your quoting from.
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Old 03-25-2019, 10:55 AM
 
Location: OH->FL->NJ
16,951 posts, read 12,511,466 times
Reputation: 8872
Welcome to 1892
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Old 03-25-2019, 10:56 AM
 
1,280 posts, read 1,389,051 times
Reputation: 1882
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
Bison kept the grass fields healthy and offered Natives food and building material. The savage Americans slaughtered them for market demand and the evil American consumer took it all for their high living standards.

Damn them all.
Wait til you find out what happens to Custer at Little Bighorn!
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Old 03-25-2019, 10:58 AM
 
3,950 posts, read 2,958,117 times
Reputation: 3796
Much of what you are talking about is stuff I just don't know about. What is "IR theory"?

I agree with much of what you say, it seems, but your first left a bad taste in my mouth, especially trying to place the blame on all white people. If we had it my way, Americans never would have settled the area North of Mexico territories in the first place (I'm talking about Idaho, Oregon, etc)

I agree about materialism. I agree about freedom. I agree about farming. The latter two are the pillars of society, especially the society our founding fathers saw America as being.
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