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Disclaimer; I am neither a socialist nor a Libertarian. I'm a pluralist, I believe in policies which work.
In my opinion, one of the roles of government is is to ensure decent policies of social justice. Governments have no money, they have OUR money gained through taxation
In my opinion a government has the duty to have broad systems of social justice in place. All are the rights of a citizen in an affluent, democratic country. They includes a public health system, which provides health care to all citizens, free of charge.Free schools and universities. A decent welfare system, which provides for the unemployed, the old, the sick ,the impaired, and children.Imo it is a shameful thing for an affluent society to have homeless persons, most especially homeless children.
Yes,Oz has homeless people. There is a limit to just how far a society go, caring for its poor and marginalised, it does come down to money.
In Oz, we created many of the homeless when we closed our psychiatric institutions.
We have what some would simplistically call 'socialised medicine.' Our system is called "Medicare'. Theoretically every permanent resident has free medical and hospital care. This is funded by a tax levy of 2.5% of one's taxable income.
You front to a public hospital emergency ,and you will eventually be treated, free. ANY public hospital care is also free.
The system seems to work for emergencies. (life threatening) For what is called 'elective' treatment, not so much.
-Have a heart condition which is not going to kill you in the short term? Waiting list can be a year or more.
Hip or knee replacement? 18 months to 2 years. Cataract removal? Up to 2 years.
A GP is paid so much by the government.Many doctors simply accept what the government pays them. This is called 'bulk billing'. Most doctors charge above that rate. The difference is payable by the patient.
Seniors, like me, need to also need to have private health insurance in case we need elective surgery .The government pays 30% of private hospital premiums. I pay about $168 a month. I also have ambulance insurance. Otherwise, an ambulance trip will cost around $1200
Here, the government makes the rules for private health insurance, not the insurers. EG You may not be refused insurance for age or a pre existing condition. A 2 Year waiting period may apply for a pre existing condition. An insured person CANNOT run out of insurance. The patient receives everything he needs ,for as long as it is needed.
A previous poster asserted that no one has the right to gain from the labour of another. Morally, arguably. But the practice of gaining from the labour of others is called CAPITALISM.
I do not see health care as a "right", no more than I believe that if you have three children you have a "right" to a 4 bedroom 3 bath house, or a $3000 per month "Basic Living Stipend", or any kind of insurance.
No person has any "right" to the services of a doctor, nurse, EMT, etc. without compensation for services rendered. Nor is there a "right" to a stay in a hospital, be it a for-profit or not-for-profit establishment, just as you don't have the "right" to the services of a mechanic without paying for them.
No person has a "right" to any kind of insurance, unless somebody else is willing to pay the premiums, and perhaps even the co-pays.
"Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness"??
Yes, you have a right to Life, within limits imposed by Society. For instance, a fetus has no rights whatsoever. It/he/she can be terminated at any time. If you point a gun at a cop (or an armed citizen), you just might die.
Yes, you have a right to Liberty, within limits imposed by society. For instance, if you live in a home covered by an HOA, your Liberty may be extremely limited. If you enlist in the military, your liberty will be limited.
Yes, you can Pursue Happiness. BUT, there is no guarantee that you will ever catch it.
You can even have the "Happiness of Pursuit", but, again, there is no guarantee that you will catch the object you are pursuing. If you do, you just might find that you really didn't want it after all!
You are born (with any luck), then you die. What happens in between is entirely up to you. Good luck.
That's the issue that liberals don't get. You can't have Oz and open borders, both. Otherwise, all the world's poor will stream in to get all the free stuff. And the economy and country collapse under the burden.
But some of us, the producers, would be paying for the non-producers and getting nothing in return. Tell ya what - you pay for yours and I’ll pay for mine. How is keeping what I earn, instead of it being used to subsidize others, selfish?
The people who tell you you are selfish are usually the non-producers.
Interesting question, but posed in a way to excite the emotions of the easily fooled.
Really what you are illustrating with this question is the useless nature of purely partisan or political views on how to govern a complex modern society.
The truth is that the "free market" is very powerful as a force to propel and improve certain markets, and it is exceedingly poor to support others.
This isn't a complicated problem. What is comes down to is very simple - just ask the question: Does the market/service/product have flexible demand? Or inflexible demand?
In the case of health care - significant portions of the market have inflexible demand. In other words, services/product that are not optional or negotiable. They are required to sustain human life and health. Other portions of the market (a good example is walk-in urgent care for minor illnesses) have flexible demand.
A smart society determines when to regulate or "socialize" the markets which are essential to human life and health and safety - and to encourage the free market to propel and sustain other markets where flexible demand will drive down costs via competition. "Smart" is the key word here. Not something we associate with our current Administration.
Nope. What I will say is that everyone who wants that type of system should be free to make it happen, as long as those who don’t like the idea aren’t forced into it. Maybe it’ll be successful and more people will join by choice.
OK, those thay do not elect to be in that type of system don't have to pay ANY taxes, therefor they CANNOT use anything those taxes provide such a roads, water treated by taxes, sewage system, etc.
Even if you live "off the grid" you had to use roads to get to the property and to get the material to build your house, etc.
Our present system already has guaranteed HC for all. If people show up at hospital with no money, they get treated. No, its not a perfect system, but it works. Medicaid id also freely given for the poor. Do the poor get the same quality as someone with good insurance, no, probably not, but, imho, if you're poor, you should be grateful for what you got for free.
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