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My heart is mine. It belongs to me .. it is MY life. Not yours. You don't get to kill me.
Just like a baby's life belongs to the baby, not the mother. The baby's life belongs to the baby. The mother's life belongs to the mother.
The mother does not get to kill the baby.
It's the SAME argument for both scenarios.
No, you just made the argument for abortion. "My heart is mine. It belongs to me .. it is MY life. Not yours. You don't get to kill me." The fetus belongs to the mother, too. She can choose to keep it or not.
In one instance you're saying that the life of the fetus is worth more than the wants of the mother, and then you say that the worth of the fetus is worth less than you wanting to stay alive. If you don't give the fetus your heart, it dies. You've essentially killed it, just as if it were aborted. So which is it? Or are you trying to say that your life is worth more than anyone else's, including that of a fetus and the woman carrying it? You're being a little hypocritical here, don't you think?
AND you're still grading people on how much worth they have in life depending on their age. You're saying the younger they are, the more worth they have.
WHY does the mother not get to kill the fetus? If the mother's life is in danger, she gets to kill the fetus. So if a baby is going to ruin a woman or a girl's life, keep her from finishing high school, keep her out of college, force her to marry someone she doesn't love, keep her in poverty, keep her on social services most of her life, isn't that the same thing? It's a quality of life issue.
You'd rather kids be born unwanted, unloved, uncared for, possibly drug addicted, possibly abused, in the foster care system, and raised in poverty than not born at all. What in the world is your reasoning behind that? Do you think the kids of such pregnancies are going to thank you? Because I sure wouldn't.
I was born to parents who never wanted kids and I wish I could have been aborted. It would have been far better than all the crap I went through growing up. If I had been a candidate for abortion at that time and found out you had prevented me being aborted, I'd hunt you down so I could slap you in the face. Thanks for nothing!
This is what pregnancy is for people who don't want to be pregnant:
“You wake up in the morning and find yourself back to back in bed with an unconscious violinist. A famous unconscious violinist. He has been found to have a fatal kidney ailment, and the Society of Music Lovers has canvassed all the available medical records and found that you alone have the right blood type to help. They have therefore kidnapped you, and last night the violinist's circulatory system was plugged into yours, so that your kidneys can be used to extract poisons from his blood as well as your own. If he is unplugged from you now, he will die; but in nine months he will have recovered from his ailment, and can safely be unplugged from you.
Question: Are you obligated to keep the musician alive, or do you cut him loose and let him die because you want to?"
And just so you know, cells are already dying in a fetus so it can be born looking like a human. What are you going to do? Hold the fetus responsible for killing off its own cells? You can do that while you consider murder charges against women who have miscarried. *sarcasm*
"During the first stage of prenatal development in humans, all the fingers and toes are in a fused state. During 6-8 weeks, however, the death of cells occurs, as a normal and controlled part of an organism's growth or development. At this stage, the webbing disappears as a result of the dissolution of the tissue between the digits by an enzyme."
But let's do it your way. The fetus is a person from conception.
OK, in that case, men need to start paying child support from the moment a heartbeat in a woman is detected. Every pregnant woman gets two votes in an election. If she qualifies for social services, she starts receiving benefits as soon as a heartbeat is detected (I know some GOP members who will backtrack on abortion as fast as Secretariat could run if that were a law). And there's more, but these will do for now. But I have to ask, is this what you really want? Because this is the logical course that follows if you want fetuses to have rights.
So you quite strongly believe a law must be passed requiring all pregnant women to give birth? Failure to do so would result in murder charges. If convicted, the woman would be subject to life in prison or death.
That's exactly what they want and that's why we don't call them pro-life. We call them forced-birthers instead.
No, you just made the argument for abortion. "My heart is mine. It belongs to me .. it is MY life. Not yours. You don't get to kill me." The fetus belongs to the mother, too. She can choose to keep it or not. .
Nope. It's the same argument. You don't get to kill me and the mother does not get to kill the baby. I have different DNA from you. We are 2 different people.
The baby has different DNA from the mother. They are 2 different people. And when babies are male? They have a penis.
Nope. It's the same argument. You don't get to kill me and the mother does not get to kill the baby. I have different DNA from you. We are 2 different people.
The baby has different DNA from the mother. They are 2 different people. And when babies are male? They have a penis.
Then you don't get to kill the baby either, which is what happens if you deny a fetus or child a needed organ. So if a fetus needs a kidney or a heart transplant (I know, highly unlikely, but for the sake of argument...), you need to give it up.
But let's do something else. Let's skip the pregnancy (because of course we all know a nine-month pregnancy carrying a baby you hate and don't want is just a skip in the park, right, not to mention all the health risks), and say you force a woman to give birth, like your name says.
You wanted the baby born. Now you get to have it. Baby goes to you. You raise it, pay for it, educate it. And oh, by the way, if this is a child of rape, the rapist can sue for visitation rights and custody. So if that's what happens, then you need to let the child go with the rapist and if the visits are supervised, then you get to entertain the rapist in your home.
What's with the DNA statement? What's that got to do with anything. I mean, if we're saying the mother can't abort her fetus because they share some of the same DNA, then let's get technical. The mother doesn't do her own abortion. A doctor does. And unless it's a very unusual situation, the doctor isn't going to share DNA with either the fetus or the mother. So I don't know what your point is.
I'm not even going to get into the penis thing, unless you want to discuss a fixation or something.
"I was born to parents who never wanted kids and I wish I could have been aborted."
So what is stopping you now?
Are you encouraging suicide? Somehow I don't think that's something this forum is eager to endorse.
I have been in therapy half my life. I'm on anti-depressants now. I'll be on them until I die and I will die if I go off them. I've been off them in the past and I was very close to suicide then.
The anti-depressants keep me at a sort of glass-half-full state. Some days are better, some days are worse. The worse days are when something reminds me of how I grew up and how I wish my parents had cared about me. Things like when the Loma Prieta earthquake happened and I had to wait on a woman who was worried sick about her daughter 30 miles away in Santa Cruz.
My mother never even bothered to try to call to see if I was OK.
Or the one time several years ago I asked my mother if she was proud of anything I'd done. Her reply: "You haven't done anything."
I had quit high school and left home at 17, gone to live in California and finished high school while working full time and supporting myself. I continued to work and support myself my entire life, going back to college at night and beginning with basic Arithmetic classes (I had flunked math all through high school), I continued through Algebra, Calculus, Physics, and Chemistry. I volunteered with a local dog training club, marched on a drill team, and worked with a Search and Rescue team training with dogs and with another SAR team that was part of the local police department, where I learned to rappel down 30 ft buildings. And I fought depression the entire time.
My mom knew about these things and didn't care one iota.
Depressing as all this is and no matter how much my mom and dad not wanting kids affected me throughout my whole life and made me wish I'd never been born, I didn't have it nearly as bad as the parents who beat, sexually abuse, and torture the kids they have but never wanted. I'm one of the lucky ones. I made it past childhood, past the suicide wishes, past young adulthood. Was it worth being born? Right now I feel like someone who's won the lottery - at 99 years old. What good does it do me now?
What I can't believe is that there are people who will force children to be born into circumstances like mine. Born to parents who don't want them, won't love them, can't care about them. Parents who will abuse their kids, starve them, sell them for sex, and eventually kill some of them. These are babies who may be put up for adoption, if they're lucky, and by doing so, will knock some other babies off the adoption list the hard way. More likely, these kids end up in foster care and spend time jumping from foster home to foster home. If they're lucky, they'll find a good home and have a good life. Under other circumstances, they'll age out of the foster care system at 18 and find themselves on the street dealing drugs and being prostitutes to stay alive.
Who wants to depend on luck to have a good life? If you can't give a child a parent that wants and loves them, you're doing nothing but gambling with their lives.
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