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Old 04-20-2019, 10:37 AM
 
2,267 posts, read 1,943,623 times
Reputation: 2554

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I give Trump credit, he knew he had to get out a PR campaign to diminish the FACTS of the report. He did and based on the responses on city data it was pretty effective.

Unfortunately for Donnie Boy facts are facts. He obstructed and, if we actually live in a functioning democracy, he must answer for it.

 
Old 04-20-2019, 10:40 AM
 
Location: Just over the horizon
18,453 posts, read 7,081,915 times
Reputation: 11699
Quote:
Originally Posted by cchampagne232000 View Post
Failure of aids to follow orders to obstruct justice:

“Comey did not end the investigation of Flynn, which ultimately resulted in Flynn’s prosecution and conviction for lying to the FBI. McGahn did not tell the Acting Attorney General that the special counsel must be removed, but was instead prepared to resign over the President’s order. Lewandowski and Dearborn did not deliver the President ‘s message to Sessions that he should confine the Russia investigation to future election meddling only. And McGahn refused to recede from his recollections about events surrounding the President’s direction to have the special counsel removed, despite the President’s multiple demands that he do so.”

“Consistent with that pattern, the evidence we obtained would not support potential obstruction charges against the President’s aides and associates beyond those already filed.”



So they basically say here that because the aides wouldn't follow through with Trumps orders, they aren't being charged with obstruction. It implies that if they HAD followed through with the orders they would have been indicted. Trumps orders = obstruction.



Again....

Even if Trump had fired Mueller....

How would that constitute obstruction of justice?

Would the investigation not continue without Mueller?

Was Mueller so vital to the investigation that it simply could not continue without him?
 
Old 04-20-2019, 10:43 AM
 
Location: Ft. Myers
19,719 posts, read 16,828,251 times
Reputation: 41863
Quote:
Originally Posted by WiseManOnceSaid View Post
So in other words, no crime to accuse him of, and no collusion with Russia. This after 2500 subpeonas, 500 witnesses, 2+ years of investigation by the best investigator in all the land, with unlimited funds/resources and no time table.

Only, well, he could still maybe be guilty of something... That's what you're telling me right?




There you go. Glad I could help.
 
Old 04-20-2019, 10:43 AM
 
3,346 posts, read 1,267,783 times
Reputation: 3173
Quote:
Originally Posted by cchampagne232000 View Post
I give Trump credit, he knew he had to get out a PR campaign to diminish the FACTS of the report. He did and based on the responses on city data it was pretty effective.

Unfortunately for Donnie Boy facts are facts. He obstructed and, if we actually live in a functioning democracy, he must answer for it.
But the responses on city data are from die hard fans of Trump, they will follow him off a cliff if he said they could fly.
 
Old 04-20-2019, 10:45 AM
 
27,624 posts, read 21,115,129 times
Reputation: 11095
Quote:
Originally Posted by cchampagne232000 View Post
I give Trump credit, he knew he had to get out a PR campaign to diminish the FACTS of the report. He did and based on the responses on city data it was pretty effective.

Unfortunately for Donnie Boy facts are facts. He obstructed and, if we actually live in a functioning democracy, he must answer for it.
He certainly has not convinced himself because Trumplethinskin is on a rampage on Twitter since yesterday.
 
Old 04-20-2019, 10:45 AM
 
2,267 posts, read 1,943,623 times
Reputation: 2554
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatBob96 View Post
Again....

Even if Trump had fired Mueller....

How would that constitute obstruction of justice?

Would the investigation not continue without Mueller?

Was Mueller so vital to the investigation that it simply could not continue without him?


The three elements of obstruction are:

1.Obstructive Acts- firing of the lead of an investigation into your acts
2.Nexus to an official proceeding- special counsel investigation ordered by DOJ
3.Intent- clearly his intent to fire Mueller is to redirect the investigation. This is clearly stated in his direction to Sessions and the speech he wanted him to give.


So the answer is yes- it would constitute obstruction legally.
 
Old 04-20-2019, 10:50 AM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
38,936 posts, read 23,880,244 times
Reputation: 14125
Quote:
Originally Posted by WiseManOnceSaid View Post
Muller wasn't fired, therefore no obstruction took place. Trying to fire someone is like trying to rob a bank by walking into it and then walking back out without saying a word and no actions. The crime never happened.
This is your defense? Oh Trump talked about it and clearly intended to do this act but didn't? I guess that means we shouldn't jail alleged terrorists who never killed anyone or broke laws right. Because that is the same damn thing. The bank robber in your case so long as they never actually showed they would do it and wasn't telegraphed to others intent to do it would in fact be arrested and likely charged for attempted robbery.
 
Old 04-20-2019, 11:06 AM
 
Location: Just over the horizon
18,453 posts, read 7,081,915 times
Reputation: 11699
Quote:
Originally Posted by cchampagne232000 View Post
The three elements of obstruction are:

1.Obstructive Acts- firing of the lead of an investigation into your acts
2.Nexus to an official proceeding- special counsel investigation ordered by DOJ
3.Intent- clearly his intent to fire Mueller is to redirect the investigation. This is clearly stated in his direction to Sessions and the speech he wanted him to give.


So the answer is yes- it would constitute obstruction legally.


In other words....it's obstruction because you say so.

Firing Comey didn't stop or change the course of the investigation and neither would have firing Mueller.
 
Old 04-20-2019, 11:08 AM
 
2,267 posts, read 1,943,623 times
Reputation: 2554
and Crickets....once the facts are laid out they go away. They'll still come on here and post the same tripe tomorrow though. "BUT BUT BUT The report says he didn't obstruct. If he obstructed they would have charged him".


Trump relies on his base to be stupid and they, unfortunately, don't disappoint.
 
Old 04-20-2019, 11:09 AM
 
Location: Just over the horizon
18,453 posts, read 7,081,915 times
Reputation: 11699
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
This is your defense? Oh Trump talked about it and clearly intended to do this act but didn't? I guess that means we shouldn't jail alleged terrorists who never killed anyone or broke laws right. Because that is the same damn thing. The bank robber in your case so long as they never actually showed they would do it and wasn't telegraphed to others intent to do it would in fact be arrested and likely charged for attempted robbery.



So, you want to jail people for thinking about committing a crime?

And you call the Right authoritarian?
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