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Doctors salaries aren't even the issue. This is another case where someone simply makes crap up.
I think it is you who made crap up.
OP is an interesting topic and it is a topic many people care about.
With free universal health care, people may not be as careful with their health. They don't have the financial incentive to do so. ... Doctors have less incentive to provide quality care if they aren't well paid. They might spend less time per patient to keep their costs down.
So of course doctors' income would be an issue. This is one of the issue the "universal health care" crowd need to address.
This is a very complicated issue. There is no simple answer. Universal health care sounds great in an IDEAL world, but in this country, there would be a lot of questions need to be answered. Why not discussing it?
You really have a very low opinion of doctors, don't you?
No I don’t have a low opinion of doctors. It’s just human nature which includes every profession. I’m sure if your boss cut your salary in half it wouldnt be a problem because you love your profession....right!!!
I am a physician. My brother and sister are physicians, as well as one sister in law and a brother in law. My daughter is in med school.
We all like what we are doing (medicine is a very interesting job). However, there is a point at which the economics would preclude doing what you like.
No one in their right mind is going to give up income for 12-14 years (you do get paid, but not much, as a resident and fellow), go into debt $300K, and then be a slave to that debt, despite how much they might like medicine. It would be crazy to do so. I was lucky, as when I trained, med school and undergrad was pretty cheap, but not now.
Beyond the debt, there is a pride issue in being paid what your efforts are worth. The job I am in now pays 1/5th of what I made two years ago. I really don't need the money any more, but there is a negative psychological issue of being paid a fraction of your perceived worth and productivity. I get offers all the time for 4-5X what I am paid now. The economics and lifestyle as well as satisfaction are all balancing acts.
There is a reason that socialism does not work. A CRNA doing anesthesia for my cases on Friday was born in Cuba and his mother is still there. When he goes to Cuba, he says he runs across cabbies who were physicians, but quit to be come cabbies for tourists, as they make a lot more money. Socialism sounds good to those who seek cheap or free services. The problem is human nature- people will seek jobs that pay them the most for their services.
Spot on. But of course, you can't tell these leftists anything. I've found that people who endlessly push some version of "Each according to his ability, each according to his need.", are usually short on ability and long on need.
I love how this version was the "Doing what you love for the good of the people" reason to needlessly impoverish yourself in order to prove how noble and moral you are.
OP is an interesting topic and it is a topic many people care about.
With free universal health care, people may not be as careful with their health. They don't have the financial incentive to do so. ... Doctors have less incentive to provide quality care if they aren't well paid. They might spend less time per patient to keep their costs down.
So of course doctors' income would be an issue.
Actually, with preventative care under a universal healthcare system people would actually take better care of themselves because they could get screening to detect things before they become serious. That's what happened for me under the ACA. The yearly tests and screenings that the ACA implemented detected a problem that could have become quite serious if not caught early. Before the ACA I had no insurance, so when this condition grew into a problem I would have had no way to afford treatment.
People have "incentive" to remain healthy precisely because they can afford to do so, not the other way around.
Actually, with preventative care under a universal healthcare system people would actually take better care of themselves because they could get screening to detect things before they become serious. That's what happened for me under the ACA. The yearly tests and screenings that the ACA implemented detected a problem that could have become quite serious if not caught early. Before the ACA I had no insurance, so when this condition grew into a problem I would have had no way to afford treatment.
People have "incentive" to remain healthy precisely because they can afford to do so, not the other way around.
hmm, I think otherwise, but if this is your opinion, then I respect your opinion.
The important point is nothing changes the fact that
Doctors have less incentive to provide quality care if they aren't well paid. They might spend less time per patient to keep their costs down.
So yes, the "universal health care" crowd needs to address the above issue. I am not against universal health care, but I think this is a very complicated issue with no simple answers. In this country, i think it is even harder to push universal health care.
In order to convince me, I need more answers, not just some emotional talk. (not saying your post is based on emotion)
SO...."nobody" goes in to medicine because they love money. There has to be an interest in medicine, the human body. Going through all those years in school ( 10 to 15 ) and several hundred thousand in student loans just to make 150k a year or more.
Nope, there is more than money involved when making the decision to become a doctor.
hmm, I think otherwise, but if this is your opinion, then I respect your opinion.
Well, I can only tell you that for the 10 years I had no health insurance I never once saw a doctor for anything, even when I probably should have. That's no way to take care of yourself, but millions of people lived that way from year to year, hoping they never got sick or injured because they couldn't afford treatment. That's a fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981
The important point is nothing changes the fact that
Doctors have less incentive to provide quality care if they aren't well paid. They might spend less time per patient to keep their costs down.
Once again you are buying into the belief that doctors are in it for the money. People who devote a decade or more to their education have more than money on their minds. It takes too much time and hard work and dedication to be a doctor when there are much more lucrative ways for young people to get rich these days that take a third of the amount of time.
I'm just not buying that doctors are only doctors to get filthy rich. It doesn't add up. And let's be honest, doctors won't exactly be struggling. Some others have posted here about what doctors make in other countries under an universal healthcare system. They're still making well above the mean.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981
So yes, the "universal health care" crowd needs to address the above issue. I am not against universal health care, but I think this is a very complicated issue with no simple answers. In this country, i think it is even harder to push universal health care.
I agree that UHC is not an easy matter, but we have many good working models from other countries around the world who have managed it. I believe we can do so here, too, if the will is there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981
In order to convince me, I need more answers, not just some emotional talk. (not saying your post is based on emotion)
This may come as a surprise to you, but the best doctors, engineers, scientists, etc. do so for the love of the craft and of humanity.
Sorry to break this to you if you assumed the Russian Fiction Writer was the Lord in these matters.
BTW, my GP friends don't even bring home 150K (after taxes, about 190 before) . That's with "capitalist health care". One can make a LOT more pushing drugs for Big Pharma...which requires only high heels or persistence. One couple I know that sells drugs makes over 500K combined. Riddle me that.....sales people often make much more than GPs.
Heck, top Realtors make more than GPs. So why wouldn't all GP's just become "Kings and Queens of Real Estate"?
Why is it that socialists do not any basic grasp of economics? This thread makes it more clear than ever.
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