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I don't know about Illinois, but in Colorado, one can be arrested for DWAI (driving while ability impaired) with a BAC of 0.05, and DUI (driving under the influence) with a BAC of 0.08. If you check any of the blood alcohol calculators, you will see that to get a 0.05 does not require a lot of drinking. These numbers are based on research. The police must have probable cause to stop you, so people with these BACs are driving strangely and are dangerous.
Yeah, that's pretty much what I'm talking about. I think those kinds of situations should have a bit more leeway, like maybe a points on your license/hefty fine type situation, and maybe worse if the cop observes you driving in a particularly odd way. To be arrested for that seems a bit excessive.
I actually don't know about Illinois, either, having lived here for three months (I also don't drive much here). In New York, cops can give you a breathalyzer if you are pulled over for any reason whatsoever, even if you do not appear to be driving erratically. That's not to say that usually do, but they can and it's been known to happen.
I love how in these posts NO ONE has EVER driven while, say, had 3 or 4 beers in the course of 2 hours. No way. And then we get a lot of soap boxes and preaching and the like.
Look, of course no one can condone driving while stammering, slurring, stumbling, blind drunk. NO ONE can / does. So I think that should pretty much be a moot point. It's like saying "I am not in favor of murder" or "I am not in favor of stealing." Well bravo. Neither is 99% of humanity in theory (even if someone has errored in their way temporarily and stolen, surely they deep-down wouldn't be in favor or stealing).
However, I often laugh at this lecturing: I have never driven drunk and those that do are the devil. Well, here is the truth: I have personally never received a DUI, however, there have been times that admittedly, had I been stopped by police, I probably would've been over the .08 legal limit. Am I proud of that? No. However, unless folks do not drink even semi-socially / regularly at all (and if they don't, good for them - that is a proud and noble thing), most people have at one time or another driven when they would've pushed that .08 limit.
No matter what the stats show, .08 is not very hard for most people to hit. Throw down 4 beers in 2 hours. You likely at that 120 minute mark will be at or above .08. Do the same with 2 margaritas or glasses of wine - at or well above.
****And now here is the real kicker: Those .08 - 1.0 folks - are no more the "killers" on the roads than the speeders or reckless drivers (of which almost every member of society is guity of at one time or another, regardless of whether they wish to admit to such on the City Data forums).
Quick side bar: I love how on the City Data forums, when a topic of speeding comes up in any forum / city area, etc., virtually NO ONE responding to the post has EVER sped in their lives! Seriously, everyone drives the speed limit here, and no one has ever picked up so much as one speeding ticket (or if they have, it was their first in 25+ years of driving). Yet, as I chug down the highway in a 65 at my 72, virtually everyone and their mother zooms past me at 10+ much higher than me (and yes, I have picked up a few speeding tickets in my day). So I guess even though 95% of society seems to speed fairly reguarly, none of those folks have the time to be on CD!!
****Anyway, back to the point. The .08 to 1.0 folks aren't the killers. That is what kills me about the DUI laws in states. They treat a first time guy who threw down 4 beers in a couple of hours and never had a DUI before and blew a .09 the same as the guy that stumbles into the blower and throws up a 2.6. I would argue that a .09 should be a misdemeanor - LESS that the current penalties - however, a 2.6 should be a MAJOR criminal offense eg: MORE than the current penalties.
Where the whole "money making" factor comes into play that the OP is talking about is here. If we were REALLY concerned about public safety / lives saved / the safety of roads, etc., than we'd really go after - and go after hard - the multiple time/repeat offenders and the extremely high BAC blowers (eg: those that are indeed the ones crawling to their cars, bombed, trashed, etc.). However, we instead go equally hard at the one-time guy who threw back one too many beers in the 2 hours after work but was trying to be responsible enough to ensure he/she was competent to drive: there is a big difference.
And if you say, "well you should NEVER drive after drinking ANY alcohol", I may not disagree, however, then make sure that YOU YOURSELF have never driven after consuming any alcohol in your life. Not just that you weren't caught, but that you didn't ever do it. If you have though, you'd be surprised how quickly you may have raced to that .08 thresh-hold.
My point isn't the condone / support drunk driving. Surely - again, as I stated above - I don't think many if any would support it. But I do sometimes questions if a .08 fellow is truly "driving drunk" in the way we most often think of - and rightfully fear for our safety of - the folks that are say 2.0+ - there is just such a big difference. And also, as I stated with my speeding example, it is amazing how quick in our age we are to judge others for behaviors in which we ourselves have participated before in in our history and just were - I guess fortunate - to not have been caught in.
As a father of 2 precious young little ones, I am for good, reasonable, safe driving habits from anyone - whether it be in relation to drinking, speeding, reckless driving, etc.
The U.S. actually has one of the higher BAC limits. In Australia for instance the BAC limit is .05, and in many countries in Europe it is .02-.05.
In British Columbia, Canada first time offenders receive a 24-hour roadside suspension for BAC greater than .05, and a suspension of license for 90 days may be imposed for a BAC over .08.
Its good to see some humility on here. With our society getting older and all the drugs that people are on I wonder about some people whom are on the road. The rich people can hire big time defense attorneys and get out of just about anything but the poorer folks(The ones whom get most of the DUIs) are hit with penalties that are devistating and do nothing but promote more Bad behavior. I just think a bit more education and a more leveling of the "Justice" is in order.
Yeah, that's pretty much what I'm talking about. I think those kinds of situations should have a bit more leeway, like maybe a points on your license/hefty fine type situation, and maybe worse if the cop observes you driving in a particularly odd way. To be arrested for that seems a bit excessive.
I actually don't know about Illinois, either, having lived here for three months (I also don't drive much here). In New York, cops can give you a breathalyzer if you are pulled over for any reason whatsoever, even if you do not appear to be driving erratically. That's not to say that usually do, but they can and it's been known to happen.
The police can do that here, too. In Indiana, per my daughter, they can breathalyze everyone in the car. One of her friends got cited for underage drinking b/c of being in an accident, even though the driver was sober.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnjoyEP
I love how in these posts NO ONE has EVER driven while, say, had 3 or 4 beers in the course of 2 hours. No way. And then we get a lot of soap boxes and preaching and the like.
I don't think anyone has said this so far. In my younger days, when I was, well, younger, and also there was less emphasis on DUI, I on rare occasions drove in that situation. OTOH, most of my college drinking was at walk-in places.
Quote:
Look, of course no one can condone driving while stammering, slurring, stumbling, blind drunk. NO ONE can / does. So I think that should pretty much be a moot point. It's like saying "I am not in favor of murder" or "I am not in favor of stealing." Well bravo. Neither is 99% of humanity in theory (even if someone has errored in their way temporarily and stolen, surely they deep-down wouldn't be in favor or stealing).
However, I often laugh at this lecturing: I have never driven drunk and those that do are the devil. Well, here is the truth: I have personally never received a DUI, however, there have been times that admittedly, had I been stopped by police, I probably would've been over the .08 legal limit. Am I proud of that? No. However, unless folks do not drink even semi-socially / regularly at all (and if they don't, good for them - that is a proud and noble thing), most people have at one time or another driven when they would've pushed that .08 limit.
No matter what the stats show, .08 is not very hard for most people to hit. Throw down 4 beers in 2 hours. You likely at that 120 minute mark will be at or above .08. Do the same with 2 margaritas or glasses of wine - at or well above.
****And now here is the real kicker: Those .08 - 1.0 folks - are no more the "killers" on the roads than the speeders or reckless drivers (of which almost every member of society is guity of at one time or another, regardless of whether they wish to admit to such on the City Data forums).
Here's where you're wrong. The BAC was lowered to 0.08 precisely because research showed that at that level, one is intoxicated, whether one kinows it or not. Whether one will believe it or not. Speeding also kills. I probably exceed the speed limit every day, though I try hard not to. But the speed limits are there for a purpose, and that purpose is safety.
[
Quote:
Quick side bar: I love how on the City Data forums, when a topic of speeding comes up in any forum / city area, etc., virtually NO ONE responding to the post has EVER sped in their lives! Seriously, everyone drives the speed limit here, and no one has ever picked up so much as one speeding ticket (or if they have, it was their first in 25+ years of driving). Yet, as I chug down the highway in a 65 at my 72, virtually everyone and their mother zooms past me at 10+ much higher than me (and yes, I have picked up a few speeding tickets in my day). So I guess even though 95% of society seems to speed fairly reguarly, none of those folks have the time to be on CD!!
****Anyway, back to the point. The .08 to 1.0 folks aren't the killers. That is what kills me about the DUI laws in states. They treat a first time guy who threw down 4 beers in a couple of hours and never had a DUI before and blew a .09 the same as the guy that stumbles into the blower and throws up a 2.6. I would argue that a .09 should be a misdemeanor - LESS that the current penalties - however, a 2.6 should be a MAJOR criminal offense eg: MORE than the current penalties.
There are penalties in Colorado for habitual DUI. But every DUI should be considered serious.
Quote:
Where the whole "money making" factor comes into play that the OP is talking about is here. If we were REALLY concerned about public safety / lives saved / the safety of roads, etc., than we'd really go after - and go after hard - the multiple time/repeat offenders and the extremely high BAC blowers (eg: those that are indeed the ones crawling to their cars, bombed, trashed, etc.). However, we instead go equally hard at the one-time guy who threw back one too many beers in the 2 hours after work but was trying to be responsible enough to ensure he/she was competent to drive: there is a big difference.
And if you say, "well you should NEVER drive after drinking ANY alcohol", I may not disagree, however, then make sure that YOU YOURSELF have never driven after consuming any alcohol in your life. Not just that you weren't caught, but that you didn't ever do it. If you have though, you'd be surprised how quickly you may have raced to that .08 thresh-hold.
My point isn't the condone / support drunk driving. Surely - again, as I stated above - I don't think many if any would support it. But I do sometimes questions if a .08 fellow is truly "driving drunk" in the way we most often think of - and rightfully fear for our safety of - the folks that are say 2.0+ - there is just such a big difference. And also, as I stated with my speeding example, it is amazing how quick in our age we are to judge others for behaviors in which we ourselves have participated before in in our history and just were - I guess fortunate - to not have been caught in.
As a father of 2 precious young little ones, I am for good, reasonable, safe driving habits from anyone - whether it be in relation to drinking, speeding, reckless driving, etc.
There may be a difference, but they are still intoxicated. They can still kill someone else, the big concern.
Last edited by Katarina Witt; 04-13-2008 at 08:28 AM..
Obviously driving drunk is a not a responsible thing to do but it is also completely hyped up and made into way more of an issue than it is. People distort facts about drunk driving accidents and deaths. It's sensationalism started by the madness that is MADD.
DUI laws are a bit differant in each state but as a money maker for the system it's out of control! If drinking is such a crime then what are we to do with all the bars. People have to leave at some point so then what? And if you do get a dui then what about getting a speedy trial and a verdict? Are dui lawyers in bed with the system to screw their clients? How much is the price of justice?
I say making the DUI laws strict. Let people have their alcohol, but make sure they don't endanger someone else with it. Raising the drinking age isn't keeping drunk driving to a minimum. If you live in Texas or San Diego, you can just drive to Mexico to get alcohol, or if you don't have those options, find someone of age who will provide you with alcohol. I say you can drink, but do not drive drunk because you will hurt someone if you do.
Location: Jonquil City (aka Smyrna) Georgia- by Atlanta
16,259 posts, read 24,788,601 times
Reputation: 3587
The law needs to reflect the severity of the crime. A person that blows a .08 is much less a danger than a person that blows a .25 BAC. They need to be treated differently. Here is what I think should be done:
1. .08 and first offense $200 and 0 days in jail. For each point over .08, you get an additional $200 and 1 day in jail. So if you have .13 on a first offense, you get $1000 fine and 5 days in jail. No loss of license and jail time can be served on weekends. Can have record expunged or sealed after 3 years of clean driving (law enforcement would have access to the record but the public record would be made as if it never happened).
2. 2nd offense doubles penalties and jail time from above and loss of license for 2 years but you would be able to get a probationary license restricted to and from your job during working hours only.
3. 3rd offense will require mandatory 3 year jail sentence and permanent loss of license. After the 3 years is served, lifetime parole and if you are ever caught driving or drinking again (random test will be required), you will go to prison for 10 years with no possibilty of parole.
Location: Jonquil City (aka Smyrna) Georgia- by Atlanta
16,259 posts, read 24,788,601 times
Reputation: 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWereRabbit
Obviously driving drunk is a not a responsible thing to do but it is also completely hyped up and made into way more of an issue than it is. People distort facts about drunk driving accidents and deaths. It's sensationalism started by the madness that is MADD.
As for MADD I do not agree with their goals. I think lowering the BAC to .08 from .10 is useless. I suspect few people are killed by drivers at .08. Most of the time when you hear about these idiots killing somebody they were 3 or 4 times the legal limit. Rasing the age was a good idea but it is almost as useless as the other stuff as far as saving lives. What they needed to do is go after the OFFENDER who is doing the crime! They need to demand higher mandatory sentences for idiots that are habitual offenders.
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