Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
1 - white people who are rich did not get rich from government. Also, you should realize that most white people are not rich lol. Most are middle class like black Americans are primarily middle class. Difference is that they have property/assets that oftentimes are passed down through family, but not often. I know a LOT of white people. Most of them have less than I have. White Americans are more likely to invest in IRAs and 401ks than black people and more likely to own a home that increases in equity. Due to the bold, they have a higher degree of wealth as a demographic. None of those have to do with government. Black Americans need to invest more in IRAs and 401ks. Black Americans need to also own their own homes outright on a higher level. We should be focusing on these to build wealth - not government reparations which will never happen.
2 - Many of the 1940-1960s Civil Rights leaders had an inferiority complex due to them believing that to be "better" or "good" or "well off" that we needed to be around white people. The inferiority complex is an enduring legacy of black America and is a part of our culture due to us being socialized to believe that whites are better than us in all ways and we are incapable of changing the course of our lives. IMO MLK believed the 1st part of the latter - that whites were better than us, which is why he and many others sought "integration" over everything versus realizing that being around whites doesn't make white people like us or accept us as "real Americans." I think that it was a naivete though of that generation of black Americans. And on reparations, I have stated that I do think they are "owed" so I agree with MLK on this; however, I also am a realist and I know that they won't occur during my life and I'm not going to sit around and wait on them to get wealth. I don't consider him "weak" because he was sick of getting discriminated against and actually "did" something. He didn't just have conventions and meetings. He had what was called "Direct Action Campaigns." He and his organizations during the Montgomery Bus Boycott for instance, they organized car pools and took people to work/school if they needed help. They provided options for getting/doing what needed to be done and didn't just sit around and complain about buses. Having meeting about how black people don't have wealth and that you need reparations to get wealth without doing anything in the interim to get what you want, is lazy and weak.
If you want wealth, the opportunities that are directly related to MLK's assassination and white America's guilt over indirectly causing the murder of a non-violent, peaceful activists, they were achieved for us. His death provided you with the opportunity to improve your income and to invest in markets, real estate, and other financial ventures in order to increase the status of black America. It has been 50 some years since his murder. That is a short period of time. However, we have come a long way in regards to income and education in particular during that 50 years. Today, we need to focus on wealth building and not b**ching about government money. Government IMO was involved or didn't prevent his murder. He was trailed by the FBI. They were on the scene when he was assassinated. I don't trust that any government agency, even those who could stop a bullet for us, will do anything to help our demographic.
3 - Elizabeth Warren is not talking anything specific for black people and neither are any other of the candidates. Facts are you are invested in government doing something to "help" you. You will be waiting your entire life. Stop waiting. Getting rid of student loans will benefit whites WAY more than blacks. Just like all other social welfare programs do today. If giving you a forgiveness on your loans or Medicare is "reparations" then you shouldn't be speaking of ADOS and you should just put your support behind a super liberal candidate who may have a good chance of getting them passed. Politically if Elizabeth Warren said she wanted student loan forgiveness and Medicare for black people only who are descendants of slaves - she would be out of the running immediately. White liberals would turn on her and conservatives would crack up and she'd be booted out of the race. That's why no politician will take on the cause of black Americans and why we need to do it ourselves. They don't care about us as a specific group and won't advocate for us like we can do ourselves on a grass roots level.
There is so much wrong in what you're saying. Understand the white middle class was created directly through FDR's New Deal, FHA loans, and the GI Bill. I made mention of the land grants that paved a way for white Europeans to come here and make a life for themselves. In fact, Jeff Bezos' family is a great example of that, which of course he used his family's wealth to create Amazon. Before all these programs, white people were poor as dirt. Those who were rich, got that way due to cheap labor. (And of course we know what slavery did for America and it's wealthy overall)
Just take it back to the Great Depression for a minute. Folks were jumping out of windows and waiting in bread lines. It was FDR that came in and corrected that. His programs and laws created white wealth, and it was these same programs that black Americans were shut out of as a group. Very few black people got some of the land grants, which led to the creation of Black Wall Street in Tulsa Oklahoma. (Which white folk burnt to a crisp) So I don't understand why you say white people didn't get rich from government. I gave you the example of how Fred Trump took advantage of the creation of the FHA. I told you how Warren Buffett said had he been born somewhere else or born black, he wouldn't have had the chances he had. The Trumps, Buffett, Bezos, all were created by government, and so have white America itself. It also aided Asian Americans, along with the help of their former country's governments. (China, India, etc.) All groups were aided, except us. You must understand that.
When it comes to the middle class, most black people are not that at all. In terms of income, a family of three has to have annual income of $45,000-$135,000 to be considered middle class. I already know the median income of Black America is around $39,000. That right there let's you know more than half of all black families, are below middle class. (And we certainly have a lot of families with more than one kid) The median for white families is over $60,000. So more than half of them are solidly middle class, or at least according to what the government deems as having a middle class income. Ultimately, a lot of your arguments just aren't based on data. It's more your personal feelings than anything else. I'm on record of saying as individuals, we should do everything we can to make it. Invest if you can, save where you can. Strive, get an education, and all that good stuff. Yet as a group of people, those things will not lift us up because of our legacy. Even if you didn't have our legacy, even for white folks, it wouldn't work because I've clearly shown how government helped them. If it wasn't for FDR, white Americans would still be jumping out of windows and waiting in bread lines.
I just find it amazing you give white Americans credit for doing things without government. That is why you keep saying I have an inferiority complex, because you believe everyone else made their wealth on their own. I'm telling you that did not happen. Not even close. If that be true, then all I'm saying is I want the government to do for me, what it did for everyone else. That's not inferiority. I call that standing up for yourself.
As the discussion head, I’d like to give some of my thoughts. While I agree that as a group, we ADOS do need to start putting our needs first, I don’t agree with the idea of alienating everyone else. It’s no argument that other minorities be it Latin Americans, non ADOS blacks, AAPIs have eaten off of our table so to speak. They have used the struggle of ADOS to get their needs satisfied by the U.S. government while we are still waiting on our piece of the pie.
That said, when I see friendships and relationships ending over the ADOS vs non ADOS comparison, I’d say people are getting carried away. I checked out their website and I do agree with several points made, however I don’t believe that the Federal Government ever have that much of a damn about us to help exclusively us. Now we’re there perhaps some grants meant for ADOS that were meant to go to ADOS? Yes, but that changed early on. Before the 70s. Plus many of these grants are based more on needs than anything else. I do know of Native American grants from the U.S. government but the U.S. government funds plenty of other things. Overall I do like the idea of a non-profit that we’d donate about $5 per month discussed early on in this thread. Even if the U.S. government only funded a small percentage of the money, if we donated $5/month that would be superb! We could raise so much money to help ourselves without so much red tape. Even spending $20/week at a black owned business could dramatically reduce black unemployment.
As the discussion head, I’d like to give some of my thoughts. While I agree that as a group, we ADOS do need to start putting our needs first, I don’t agree with the idea of alienating everyone else. It’s no argument that other minorities be it Latin Americans, non ADOS blacks, AAPIs have eaten off of our table so to speak. They have used the struggle of ADOS to get their needs satisfied by the U.S. government while we are still waiting on our piece of the pie.
That said, when I see friendships and relationships ending over the ADOS vs non ADOS comparison, I’d say people are getting carried away. I checked out their website and I do agree with several points made, however I don’t believe that the Federal Government ever have that much of a damn about us to help exclusively us. Now we’re there perhaps some grants meant for ADOS that were meant to go to ADOS? Yes, but that changed early on. Before the 70s. Plus many of these grants are based more on needs than anything else. I do know of Native American grants from the U.S. government but the U.S. government funds plenty of other things. Overall I do like the idea of a non-profit that we’d donate about $5 per month discussed early on in this thread. Even if the U.S. government only funded a small percentage of the money, if we donated $5/month that would be superb! We could raise so much money to help ourselves without so much red tape. Even spending $20/week at a black owned business could dramatically reduce black unemployment.
Yeah, we should do whatever we can, but we need to understand that will not overcome the legacy of slavery and Jim Crow. The only thing that will lift us up as a group, the only thing, is comprehensive reparations, to the tune of trillions of dollars in investment. Only government can fork out those kinds of resources. We need capital for black business. Well over 90% of black businesses have no employees. Almost all black female owned black businesses have no employees. According to our government, a business with 50-100 employees are considered small businesses. I'm confident in saying 99.9% of all black businesses, don't have at least 50 employees. So do what you can to survive, but that will not solve our problem as a group.
They say the conservative amount you need in start up capital for a potentially successful business, is 100k-150k. How many of us have that kind of money in our families? How many banks would be willing to give us half of that for a business loan? There's just no such thing as doing for self.
That's like a handful of people...there are some Americo-Liberians too. But their descendants today are usually only partially of American descent.
If it ever comes to it, immigrants from those countries would have a hard time proving ADOS lineage.
Yes that’s why I said in the vast majority of cases, immigrants are not ADOS. My point was there is a small minority who are. It may or may not be hard to prove, depending on the family.
As the discussion head, I’d like to give some of my thoughts. While I agree that as a group, we ADOS do need to start putting our needs first, I don’t agree with the idea of alienating everyone else. It’s no argument that other minorities be it Latin Americans, non ADOS blacks, AAPIs have eaten off of our table so to speak. They have used the struggle of ADOS to get their needs satisfied by the U.S. government while we are still waiting on our piece of the pie.
That said, when I see friendships and relationships ending over the ADOS vs non ADOS comparison, I’d say people are getting carried away. I checked out their website and I do agree with several points made, however I don’t believe that the Federal Government ever have that much of a damn about us to help exclusively us. Now we’re there perhaps some grants meant for ADOS that were meant to go to ADOS? Yes, but that changed early on. Before the 70s. Plus many of these grants are based more on needs than anything else. I do know of Native American grants from the U.S. government but the U.S. government funds plenty of other things. Overall I do like the idea of a non-profit that we’d donate about $5 per month discussed early on in this thread. Even if the U.S. government only funded a small percentage of the money, if we donated $5/month that would be superb! We could raise so much money to help ourselves without so much red tape. Even spending $20/week at a black owned business could dramatically reduce black unemployment.
If such a fund existed, you would get support in the way of donations from many of the white folks who are against reparations. Nobody likes being told 'you owe us'. I'm against reparations, but I'd contribute to a fund.
There is so much wrong in what you're saying. Understand the white middle class was created directly through FDR's New Deal, FHA loans, and the GI Bill. I made mention of the land grants that paved a way for white Europeans to come here and make a life for themselves. In fact, Jeff Bezos' family is a great example of that, which of course he used his family's wealth to create Amazon. Before all these programs, white people were poor as dirt. Those who were rich, got that way due to cheap labor. (And of course we know what slavery did for America and it's wealthy overall)
Just take it back to the Great Depression for a minute. Folks were jumping out of windows and waiting in bread lines. It was FDR that came in and corrected that. His programs and laws created white wealth, and it was these same programs that black Americans were shut out of as a group. Very few black people got some of the land grants, which led to the creation of Black Wall Street in Tulsa Oklahoma. (Which white folk burnt to a crisp) So I don't understand why you say white people didn't get rich from government. I gave you the example of how Fred Trump took advantage of the creation of the FHA. I told you how Warren Buffett said had he been born somewhere else or born black, he wouldn't have had the chances he had. The Trumps, Buffett, Bezos, all were created by government, and so have white America itself. It also aided Asian Americans, along with the help of their former country's governments. (China, India, etc.) All groups were aided, except us. You must understand that.
When it comes to the middle class, most black people are not that at all. In terms of income, a family of three has to have annual income of $45,000-$135,000 to be considered middle class. I already know the median income of Black America is around $39,000. That right there let's you know more than half of all black families, are below middle class. (And we certainly have a lot of families with more than one kid) The median for white families is over $60,000. So more than half of them are solidly middle class, or at least according to what the government deems as having a middle class income. Ultimately, a lot of your arguments just aren't based on data. It's more your personal feelings than anything else. I'm on record of saying as individuals, we should do everything we can to make it. Invest if you can, save where you can. Strive, get an education, and all that good stuff. Yet as a group of people, those things will not lift us up because of our legacy. Even if you didn't have our legacy, even for white folks, it wouldn't work because I've clearly shown how government helped them. If it wasn't for FDR, white Americans would still be jumping out of windows and waiting in bread lines.
I just find it amazing you give white Americans credit for doing things without government. That is why you keep saying I have an inferiority complex, because you believe everyone else made their wealth on their own. I'm telling you that did not happen. Not even close. If that be true, then all I'm saying is I want the government to do for me, what it did for everyone else. That's not inferiority. I call that standing up for yourself.
The reason why majority of black families are below the poverty line is that 70 percent of all black women in America are single mothers. Having a shamika who is a college educated woman who works as a health care technician living outside of NYC making a salary is 70k a year will not go far if she has to feed her 3 kids Tyrone, starasia and Quan. Unless the state intervenes and forces child support on the ex boyfriend or husband.
Yeah, we should do whatever we can, but we need to understand that will not overcome the legacy of slavery and Jim Crow. The only thing that will lift us up as a group, the only thing, is comprehensive reparations, to the tune of trillions of dollars in investment. Only government can fork out those kinds of resources. We need capital for black business. Well over 90% of black businesses have no employees. Almost all black female owned black businesses have no employees. According to our government, a business with 50-100 employees are considered small businesses. I'm confident in saying 99.9% of all black businesses, don't have at least 50 employees. So do what you can to survive, but that will not solve our problem as a group.
They say the conservative amount you need in start up capital for a potentially successful business, is 100k-150k. How many of us have that kind of money in our families? How many banks would be willing to give us half of that for a business loan? There's just no such thing as doing for self.
This isn’t to say that this fund would make up for it, that said. I DO think that our own labor will get us further than the government who will probably be paying on these reparations for the next 400/500 years. I don’t believe e we should just sit and wait on the U.S. gov to do it’s part because of so, we may waiting and waiting and waiting.
A predominantly black church in my hometown is in the process of starting a credit union. Still in the planning stages. We need to work with what we DO have while waiting on the rest of the debt to be paid off.
This isn’t to say that this fund would make up for it, that said. I DO think that our own labor will get us further than the government who will probably be paying on these reparations for the next 400/500 years. I don’t believe e we should just sit and wait on the U.S. gov to do it’s part because of so, we may waiting and waiting and waiting.
A predominantly black church in my hometown is in the process of starting a credit union. Still in the planning stages. We need to work with what we DO have while waiting on the rest of the debt to be paid off.
And studies show in terms of income, black people save as much, if not more than other groups. Overall, I believe we are doing what we can to better ourselves.
All in all, without reparations, our group is done. If the government never does anything to address this issue, whether we're waiting around or not, we're still done. So ultimately reparations isn't something that would be nice to have, it is our lifeline.
Here's a clip from Dr. Claude Anderson talking about it. (And I don't agree with everything he says, but he's spot on about reparations. Starts around 46 seconds in)
Last edited by Heavenese; 05-11-2019 at 11:17 AM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
