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I depend on our strong immune systems that are what NATURE intended us to have not immune systems compromised by poisonous vaccines so we are stuck on an ENDLESS cycle of medicine and doctors visits which just makes big pharma richer and us sicker. The reason this MINOR rash is coming back is because the country is being flooded with invaders from 3rd world countries that don't have clean water or sanitation which is why disease spreads to begin with. It also helps we live in a city/county that has VERY FEW foreigners and therefore less of a chance of running into someone with disease. I just hope it stays that way for many reasons.
You should not be spreading misinformation. Measles does NOT spread because of poor sanitation. Unclean water is the vector for many diseases, but not measles. It is air borne. It is a minor rash to some people. To others, there is the possibility of deafness, brain infection, and death. These more major sequelae usually occur in people who have a lower level of nutrition and health status, so many Americans don't get them. But people in poorer countries and in poorer pockets of rich countries can suffer much more from measles than many of us. The reason we are having outbreaks is because generally, a community needs to be 95% immune to fend off one infected person starting an epidemic. That immunity can come from having had the disease, but you don't get rates of 95% immunity if you don't vaccinate. The number of foreigners in a country is irrelevant to the rate of measles transmission. The number of vaccinated people is relevant. There are many countries in the world that have low vaccination rates, for a whole bunch of different reasons. Anyone who is unvaccinated and who visits those countries risks contracting and spreading the disease. What we need is for Americans who are traveling to be vaccinated so that they don't bring the disease back into the country, for the American public to be vaccinated at a rate of about 95%, and for immigrants to get required vaccinations. THAT will prevent outbreaks and epidemics. By the way, the measles virus is so infectious that having a "strong immune system" will not prevent infection. Before immunization, whole communities were affected, and some died, some ended up deaf or otherwise handicapped, and some survived. It is NATURAL for large percentages of communities to be wiped out by disease, but it in not necessary. We do not have to live like we lived centuries ago.
You chose to respond to my reply to another poster with "No". My response was factual. My original reply was part of a conversation about Package Inserts (PIs). If you do not know what those are why chime in and join a conversation about them?
Oh, package inserts? Yeah I’ll pass on that one, sorry! “Sorry but no”; was directed towards everything said about SIDS. Everything. Even the stupid term: “SIDS”. It’s all BS. Why even bother with an autopsy? Just say that the baby suddenly died from baby death.
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010
Are girls treated differently in Guinea-Bissau? Are families less likely to spend scarce resources on females? From links you have previously given, studies had small numbers of deaths and many of those were from conditions with no connection to vaccines at all. I do not think you can extrapolate a "sex differential" from a third world country to the US.
Frankly, I don’t care if the rise in mortality was documented in children on Mars (human). They are endorsing a vaccine that has been shown to increase infant mortality in certain populations. Is that really the best they can do? Cause that’s not good enough for me.
Respond to & address the bias, gain public trust & there will be increasingly vaccinated populations, or ... not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010
No one is invalidating the death of any child, including those who die from vaccine preventable diseases, and the number that do is many orders of magnitude higher than those who have any serious adverse reaction to vaccines.
You might want to discuss with a statistician why it is a mathematical certainty that cases of autism will be diagnosed in a percentage of cases after a vaccine is received even when the vaccine did not cause the autism.
So my daughter’s death was an acceptable loss & my son’s disability a coincidence but that’s not an invalidating thing to say?
You still here OP? Now do you understand why people are not vaccinating?
Some countries use vaccines we don't, such as Meningitis B and C for infants and young children, tick borne encephalitis, and tuberculosis. Virtually all countries use MMR and DTaP/DTwP combination vaccines. Some countries give a combination Tdap/IPV vaccine every 10 years through adulthood.
Not sure why you find that hilarious. Are you insulting these families decisions? Do you even know which countries they are from? Or are you making blanket statements again because it's vaccines or else?
I can give you their information, and you can contact them and tell them how dumb they are.
Oh, package inserts? Yeah I’ll pass on that one, sorry! “Sorry but no”; was directed towards everything said about SIDS. Everything. Even the stupid term: “SIDS”. It’s all BS. Why even bother with an autopsy? Just say that the baby suddenly died from baby death.
Frankly, I don’t care if the rise in mortality was documented in children on Mars (human). They are endorsing a vaccine that has been shown to increase infant mortality in certain populations. Is that really the best they can do? Cause that’s not good enough for me.
Respond to & address the bias, gain public trust & there will be increasingly vaccinated populations, or ... not.
So my daughter’s death was an acceptable loss & my son’s disability a coincidence but that’s not an invalidating thing to say?
You still here OP? Now do you understand why people are not vaccinating?
I am not convinced, from the articles you have posted, that the studies have controlled for cultural practices that are common in Africa, including a preference for male children. Those articles have described small numbers of deaths, including deaths over which vaccines could not possibly have any influence, making conclusions about vaccines as a cause problematic.
"There were 42 deaths between 6 and 35 months of age; 14 had fever as the main symptom, 13 had diarrhea or diarrhea and vomiting, 6 died from measles, 1 had respiratory infection, 1 was malnourished, 1 had anemia, 1 did not eat, and 5 had no information, most likely because the mother/family had moved."
Problem: study from 1981
Problem: third world country; results cannot be extrapolated to the US
Problem: low number of deaths (42)
Problem; no accurate cause of death. Fever, diarrhea, and vomiting are symptoms, not diagnoses.
Problem: 5 of the 42 the cause of death was unknown because family lost to followup. That is a 12% rate, which can bias results. How many of those were due to measles? Were any accidental? What were the causes of the fevers, diarrhea, and vomiting (rotavirus, perhaps?)
Problem: it is not plausible that DPT vaccination would lead to death from measles.
Problem: the hazard ratio for the deaths of girls is 2.91 (95% confidence level = 0.84–10.00) That range is wide, which is common when low numbers of subjects are studied, and it includes 1. That means that the result is not statistically significant. The author's conclusion is not supported by his own data.
"Confidence Interval (CI): is the range of values that is likely to include the true population value and is used to measure the precision of the study’s estimate (in this case, the precision of the Hazard Ratio). The narrower the confidence interval, the more precise the estimate. (Precision will be affected by the study’s sample size). If the confidence interval includes 1, then the hazard ratio is not significant."
Problem: in the discussion section of the article the author does not address any of the problems above, of which the conclusion that there is a significantly greater risk of death in girls is considered significant when the hazard ratio says it is not.
I am very sorry for the loss of your daughter, but SIDS exists, and the researchers are teasing out the physiologic mechanisms, which probably have to do with abnormalities in the systems that regulate breathing. It has been studied and vaccines do not cause SIDS. Autopsies are done to rule out other conditions, particularly of the circulatory system, that might cause sudden death. SIDS has been described long before there were vaccines.(Euripides, 430-406 BCE)
I know you wrestle with your son's autism (often literally) every minute of every day, but vaccines did not make him the way he is. He was born that way.
You might want to consider that your relentless attempt to blame vaccines might be consuming energy that is needed for caring for your son. You also need to look into respite programs that will let you get some rest.
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Originally Posted by newtovenice
Not sure why you find that hilarious. Are you insulting these families decisions? Do you even know which countries they are from? Or are you making blanket statements again because it's vaccines or else?
I can give you their information, and you can contact them and tell them how dumb they are.
Who called them dumb except you? Most countries give the same vaccines that the US does; some use vaccines that the US does not. What evidence do you have that variations in schedules used by other countries are better than the way the US does it? Different is not necessarily better.
Last edited by suzy_q2010; 05-02-2019 at 02:27 AM..
If you cannot locate records, have a titer done or get the vaccine. Taking the vaccine is cheaper.
I would need scientific evidence that the vaccine was causative. That would include a plausible mechanism by which it could do it and epidemiological evidence that autism happened more often after the vaccine than not. Since autism is genetic, it would have to have an effect at conception.
Please quote a single healthcare professional from anywhere in the world who says, "vaccines are 100% safe." Until you can do that, please stop claiming they say it.
I am not moving the goalposts. You are dodging the question. How many lobbyists are there specifically who are out talking to politicians about vaccines?
No one wants your records. You can stop complaining. Please just stay away from infants and out of NICUs if you refuse the Tdap.
"We now in Texas have a whole political action committee (PAC) that’s anti-vaccine and raising money for candidates to run on anti-vaccine platforms. It’s happened in multiple states in the US. There are more than 480 websites that are anti-vaccine."
You and Terri are certainly opposed to Kat and me speaking up in favor of vaccines. Parents of children who vaccinate and who have children who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons have rights, too.
Please quote, from anywhere on the internet, anywhere in the world, a health professional who says that. Until you can do it, just stop. It is not true, no matter how many times you say it.
I have repeatedly told you that adverse reactions to vaccines happen. They are just incredibly rare, and vaccines are many orders of magnitude safer than the diseases they prevent.
So someone would need to get a titer for every possible vaccine or get boosters from every vaccine on the schedule? And you are recommending just get the vaccine ... because it's cheaper ... That sounds like a scientific approach. Pick which is cheaper. Who profits from that? Oh right.
Question: Since "the science is settled" and "vaccines do not cause autism how would anyone know if a NEW vaccine caused autism? Would any medical professional even bother looking for it? Will any clinical trial even consider it? No. It's settled. How do you identify something that has been already dismissed? Do you NOT see how this line of thinking is dangerous? This women was collecting information on doctors who HAVE spoken out against vaccines are not as safe as they say the are. She had to remove the names from her blog to protect the doctors safety. http://journeyboost.com/2016/02/29/2...cine-safety-2/
When you are able to acknowledge that people are harmed by vaccines, always say it's extremely rare. You dismiss it, like it never ever ever happens and people shouldn't be concerned about it. Do you really believe that kids are harmed? Have you talked with ANYONE who isn't a drug junkie? Or who has been harmed? $4 billion in settlement money .. and still screaming from the hills that they are 99.9999999999999999999999999999% safe.
Ah. The only parental rights that matter to you is if they are 100% supportive of mandatory vaccines. No other parents matter, right?
The hearing is in Colorado. Not Texas. Moving goalpost again. Funny how you have no problem with paid pharma lobbyists shilling for all drugs known to man -- more pharma lobbyists than congressman -- but are upset that parents are speaking up for parental rights and the right to CHOOSE healthcare for their own children. They aren't saying: Ban all vaccines. They are saying: This is a choice issue. And you are against choice.
Define antivaccine website. Do each of these 480 "antivaccine" websites have a fully funded lobbyist program? Can you prove it? Nope. Another lie.
PS. No one is opposed of you speaking up. It's your demand that everyone received mandatory vaccination that's issue. You do not get to decide what medical treatment the world gets. You do not get to enslave a population because you support pharma manufacturers.
Its clear you do not believe in freedom. Or parental rights.
Last edited by newtovenice; 05-02-2019 at 01:55 AM..
Who called them dumb except you? Most countries give the same vaccines that the US does; some use vaccines that the US does not. What evidence do you have that variations in schedules used by other countries are better than the way the US does it? Different is not necessarily better.
Again, I can send you their information and you can interrogate them on how "hilarious" you think it is that are concerned with their children's health and safety. Since it's so FUNNY that these parents want the best for their kids.
And since you obviously know better what's right for their children-- even though you have no knowledge of their children's health status or what countries of origin are -- you can inform them how hilarious you think they are.
So someone would need to get a titer for every possible vaccine or get boosters from every vaccine on the schedule? And you are recommending just get the vaccine ... because it's cheaper ... That sounds like a scientific approach. Pick which is cheaper. Who profits from that? Oh right.
Anyone who has a need to know or wishes to know his immunity status and does not have records can get tested and then get the vaccine if he does not have a protective titer or just take the vaccine. It is cheaper to take the vaccine. That is just a statement of fact, particularly if you get a titer and then need the vaccine. It would be wise for any adult in a situation involving possible exposure to measles to discuss it with her doctor. An example would be travel to areas where there are now significant measles outbreaks.
Quote:
Question: Since "the science is settled" and "vaccines do not cause autism how would anyone know if a NEW vaccine caused autism? Would any medical professional even bother looking for it? Will any clinical trial even consider it? No. It's settled. How do you identify something that has been already dismissed? Do you NOT see how this line of thinking is dangerous? This women was collecting information on doctors who HAVE spoken out against vaccines are not as safe as they say the are. She had to remove the names from her blog to protect the doctors safety.
The same way the problem with the rotavirus vaccine and intussusception as discovered: VAERS and the vaccine safety datalink followed by epidemiological studies. However, we now know that autism is genetic and that it is not plausible that a vaccine causes it. Your hypothetical situation is not going to happen.
Sorry, if she will not reveal their names as far as I am concerned they do not exist. If they feel so strongly, why wouldn't they want to be known? "To protect the doctors safety" is hogwash.
Quote:
When you are able to acknowledge that people are harmed by vaccines, always say it's extremely rare. You dismiss it, like it never ever ever happens and people shouldn't be concerned about it. Do you really believe that kids are harmed? Have you talked with ANYONE who isn't a drug junkie? Or who has been harmed? $4 billion in settlement money .. and still screaming from the hills that they are 99.9999999999999999999999999999% safe.
I believe that the risk of a serious adverse reaction to a vaccine is about one in a million. That is what the statistics show. I do not care whether you believe them or not.
Quote:
Ah. The only parental rights that matter to you is if they are 100% supportive of mandatory vaccines. No other parents matter, right?
Parents of immunocompromised children who cannot be vaccinated have no rights?
Quote:
The hearing is in Colorado. Not Texas. Moving goalpost again. Funny how you have no problem with paid pharma lobbyists shilling for all drugs known to man -- more pharma lobbyists than congressman -- but are upset that parents are speaking up for parental rights and the right to CHOOSE healthcare for their own children. They aren't saying: Ban all vaccines. They are saying: This is a choice issue. And you are against choice.
You asked about antivaccine lobbying and I gave you an example. The state is irrelevant.
Quote:
Define antivaccine website. Do each of these 480 "antivaccine" websites have a fully funded lobbyist program? Can you prove it? Nope. Another lie.
Do I really have to define it for you? Where did I imply that there was a lobbyist program for each of them? The fact is that antivaccinationists are spending money to try to get vaccine mandates removed. It's no lie. Believe it or not. I really don't care
Quote:
PS. No one is opposed of you speaking up. It's your demand that everyone received mandatory vaccination that's issue. You do not get to decide what medical treatment the world gets. You do not get to enslave a population because you support pharma manufacturers.
Its clear you do not believe in freedom. Or parental rights.
I support vaccination because the risks are tiny and the benefits enormous. Pharma's profits have nothing to do with it. However, they would make much more treating the disease than they do from the vaccine, like the over $800,000 hospital stay for the child with tetanus recently. A lot of that would be for medication.
Your "parental rights" end where mine begin for my child with leukemia. Your "freedom" does not include the "freedom" to make him sick.
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice
Again, I can send you their information and you can interrogate them on how "hilarious" you think it is that are concerned with their children's health and safety. Since it's so FUNNY that these parents want the best for their kids.
And since you obviously know better what's right for their children-- even though you have no knowledge of their children's health status or what countries of origin are -- you can inform them how hilarious you think they are.
I never used the word "hilarious".
Having a different schedule from the US does not mean the other country's is the superior one.
There are countries that do not vaccinate against chickenpox. That one could have killed my son when he was on chemo, even though he had already had the disease. As evidence that his immune system could not handle the chickenpox virus very well he got shingles and was hospitalized and treated with antiviral medication. Every door into the clinic and hospital had signs telling people not to enter if they had been exposed to chickenpox. Do I think every country should routinely use the varicella vaccine? You betcha.
Hair changes from birth to 6 months to a year old to two years old to three years old, etc. Even the color of.
My 2nd was born with zero pigment in his hair. It was literally see-through. He ended up blonde around the age of 1. He ended up a dark blond around the age of of 2.5 years old. Darker every year since. Now has dark brown hair at 17. Not caused by a vaccination. Genetics. Still has the same bright blue eyes he was born with.
Do you have a link to "autism hair"? I googled...couldn't find a thing.
Yes. I find that VERY hard to believe. For one to have been "expelled" from med school for not "lying to parents of vaccine-injured children that it could not have been due to the vax".
You ain't that involved while in med school. Not back in the 80's and not even today.
Hair changes.
Skin changes.
I watched a little spot grow in to a "Marilyn" on my youngest's face.
I watched my middle child go from blonde to chestnut brown. From silky cornsilk to curly brillo pad.
No autism.
So now it's aluminum that causes autism?
My kids' pediatrician(s) told me, back in 1999, when so many swore that the MMR caused autism.... that they already KNEW that ever single one of the kids in their practice, who were eventually dx'd with autism when the child was older ot was more obvious, showed signs of having an issue/autism very early on.
The parents just didn't want to hear that little Jackie didn't make eye contact, didn't like to be touched, wasn't meeting normal milestones.... early signs of autism or some point on the "spectrum".
So the parents had to find something to blame.
They chose to blame a vaccination.
Aluminum salts, such as Aluminum Hydroxide is the "aluminum" that is used in vaccinations. It's also in OTC antacids.
Have an infant with reflux? You get an OTC liquid antacid. All 3 of mine have dealt with that. Didn't give one of my 3 changes in hair or autism.
Aluminum pots/pans?
Please.
If the MMR or any other vaccination caused autism, all would be autistic.
And what about those who are both unvaccinated and autistic?
No autism, you must be grateful.
What does cause Autism? Since 1 in 59 people now have it.
The answer will be you don't know. They are studying a plethora of causes right now. One they are studying is this.
If someone is susceptible to ASD because of genetic mutations, then certain situations might cause autism in that person.
"For instance, infection or contact with chemicals in the environment could cause autism in someone who is susceptible because of genetic mutations.1 However, someone who is genetically susceptible might not get an ASD even if he or she has the same experiences.https://www.nichd.nih.gov/health/top...ioninfo/causes
So, exposure to a virus isn't that far off. March 6, 2008 -- Federal officials say a Georgia girl is entitled to compensation from a federal vaccine injury fund because she developed autism-like symptoms after receiving childhood vaccines in 2000.The government has not said that childhood vaccines cause autism; rather, officials conclude that the vaccines given to the girl in 2000 aggravated a pre-existing condition -- a mitochondrial disorder -- that then manifested as a regressive neurological disease with some symptoms of autism spectrum disorder.https://www.webmd.com/brain/autism/n...ate-heats-up#1
The truth is your story doesn't prove anything. Everyone with Autism is different, that's why it's hard to know why people get it. Spewing "no autism" from your lucky kids after every example means absolutely nothing. It doesn't make it not true for someone else. Nobody knows, which leaves parents of kids with Autism searching and looking into everything. Food, dyes, chemicals, infections, viruses, diet, and yes even vaccines.
One day their kids fine, the next they're not. Rarely do they see signs early unless it's severe, or it started at birth. Mine showed up at 10. I made eye contact and still do. We aren't all the same.
Parents with Autistic kids or people with Autism are left belittled by people like you all the time, we're used to it. You're lucky to not have to search for a cause or a cure, but please, don't try to prove the cause of Autism when you aren't familiar with it at all. Nobody knows. Like you've made clear, you aren't even familiar with it, your kids don't have it. You have no idea what you're talking about so don't assume anything about parents of Autistics because you'll be wrong. Autism lasts a lifetime. The numbers of Autistics dwarf the amount with M, M or R. Parents are confused and frightened. Give it a break!
As far as vaccines causing Autism there is still enough suspicion that exposure to viruses or chemicals could cause Autism in some or all people so not looking there will be a no. Parents will keep searching until there is an answer. If you want to eliminate that fear then donate to Autism research.
Anyone who has a need to know or wishes to know his immunity status and does not have records can get tested and then get the vaccine if he does not have a protective titer or just take the vaccine. It is cheaper to take the vaccine. That is just a statement of fact, particularly if you get a titer and then need the vaccine. It would be wise for any adult in a situation involving possible exposure to measles to discuss it with her doctor. An example would be travel to areas where there are now significant measles outbreaks.
The same way the problem with the rotavirus vaccine and intussusception as discovered: VAERS and the vaccine safety datalink followed by epidemiological studies. However, we now know that autism is genetic and that it is not plausible that a vaccine causes it. Your hypothetical situation is not going to happen.
Sorry, if she will not reveal their names as far as I am concerned they do not exist. If they feel so strongly, why wouldn't they want to be known? "To protect the doctors safety" is hogwash.
I believe that the risk of a serious adverse reaction to a vaccine is about one in a million. That is what the statistics show. I do not care whether you believe them or not.
Parents of immunocompromised children who cannot be vaccinated have no rights?
You asked about antivaccine lobbying and I gave you an example. The state is irrelevant.
Do I really have to define it for you? Where did I imply that there was a lobbyist program for each of them? The fact is that antivaccinationists are spending money to try to get vaccine mandates removed. It's no lie. Believe it or not. I really don't care
I support vaccination because the risks are tiny and the benefits enormous. Pharma's profits have nothing to do with it. However, they would make much more treating the disease than they do from the vaccine, like the over $800,000 hospital stay for the child with tetanus recently. A lot of that would be for medication.
Your "parental rights" end where mine begin for my child with leukemia. Your "freedom" does not include the "freedom" to make him sick.
I never used the word "hilarious".
Having a different schedule from the US does not mean the other country's is the superior one.
There are countries that do not vaccinate against chickenpox. That one could have killed my son when he was on chemo, even though he had already had the disease. As evidence that his immune system could not handle the chickenpox virus very well he got shingles and was hospitalized and treated with antiviral medication. Every door into the clinic and hospital had signs telling people not to enter if they had been exposed to chickenpox. Do I think every country should routinely use the varicella vaccine? You betcha.
It's not a competition Suzy. Knock it off. All parents care about their kids.
It's not a competition Suzy. Knock it off. All parents care about their kids.
Some of us care about all kids, not just our own.
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