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Old 04-26-2019, 11:50 PM
 
27,624 posts, read 21,115,129 times
Reputation: 11095

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Quote:
David Frum, who is an author and conservative editor at the Atlantic magazine, thinks Republicans have backed themselves into a corner.

In Frum’s book Trumpocracy, he argues that Republicans are wedded to an ideology that cannot succeed democratically. They have virtually abandoned the democratic process, he believes, and have chosen to support a demagogue who can push their unpopular agenda. It’s a strong rebuke of the current president and the Republican establishment that has enabled him at every step.

I spoke to Frum about the dangers of this moment, and why he thinks Republicans will, ultimately, have to face up to the fact that what they believe can’t be achieved if everybody votes.

The argument I’m making is that Donald Trump’s rococo personality is outrageous and ridiculous and consumes all of our attention, but what we really need to pay attention to is his system of power. A president does not rule by personal authority and personal charisma. He is part of a system, and you have to understand that whole system — who supports him and why.

https://www.vox.com/2018/1/18/168805...ns-trumpocracy
No secret that Mitch McConnell and others of the GOP are enablers so that they could push their money and power hungry agendas through if they gave cover and a pen to the monstrosity in The Oval Office. One dirty filthy hand washes the other. These pieces of garbage can never claim patriotism ever again.
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Old 04-26-2019, 11:52 PM
 
Location: Greenville SC 'Waterfall City'
10,105 posts, read 7,390,618 times
Reputation: 4077
I wonder why liberals are the only people who cite 'conservative' David Frum.....

The people who make arguments don't like democracy. Democracy gave us Trump.
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Old 04-27-2019, 12:15 AM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA
14,834 posts, read 7,406,673 times
Reputation: 8966
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemVegas View Post
I wonder why liberals are the only people who cite 'conservative' David Frum.....

The people who make arguments don't like democracy. Democracy gave us Trump.
Actually no, a truly democratic vote would have gone the other way.
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Old 04-27-2019, 12:18 AM
 
5,717 posts, read 3,143,889 times
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Orange man bad
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Old 04-27-2019, 12:41 AM
 
14,489 posts, read 6,092,467 times
Reputation: 6842
Quote:
A speechwriter for President George W. Bush, Frum later authored the first book about Bush's presidency written by a former member of the administration.[4] He was credited with inspiring the phrase "axis of evil" in Bush's 2002 State of the Union address

The new lib icon
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Old 04-27-2019, 12:41 AM
 
Location: Stillwater, Oklahoma
30,976 posts, read 21,621,734 times
Reputation: 9676
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemVegas View Post
I wonder why liberals are the only people who cite 'conservative' David Frum.....

The people who make arguments don't like democracy. Democracy gave us Trump.
So to you the Electoral College is a form of democracy?
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Old 04-27-2019, 01:16 AM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
14,848 posts, read 8,202,687 times
Reputation: 4590
Quote:
Originally Posted by atltechdude View Post
Actually no, a truly democratic vote would have gone the other way.
And Hillary Clinton would have lost the Democratic nomination to Bernie Sanders in a truly democratic vote.


Plus, we are assuming that democracy somehow reflects the "Will of the people". That it isn't being manipulated by the media, corporations, and donors. And that the game of coalition party-politics, which tries to accommodate various groups through "wedge-issues" and identity-politics, doesn't result in a total distortion of the "Will of the people". Where you are forced to "choose a side" and adopt and defend all of the opinions and positions of "your side".

Do you honestly think Americans are pretty much equally-split on almost every issue? Why do people even believe what they believe?


I despise democracy because it is never democratic. Coalition politics causes each political-party to focus not on the interests of the entire population, or even the majority, but on small groups that ultimately decide elections. And not just the donors, but think of gay-marriage. Gays may be a tiny fraction of the population, but since elections are usually won or lost by only a few percentage points, catering to even tiny minorities can be the difference between winning and losing.
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Old 04-27-2019, 01:36 AM
 
Location: Eugene, Oregon
11,120 posts, read 5,582,785 times
Reputation: 16596
Quote:
Originally Posted by sickofnyc View Post
No secret that Mitch McConnell and others of the GOP are enablers so that they could push their money and power hungry agendas through if they gave cover and a pen to the monstrosity in The Oval Office. One dirty filthy hand washes the other. These pieces of garbage can never claim patriotism ever again.

By the time I was 8 years old, I had already realized that republicanism was antithetical to freedom, equality and democracy. And both my parents and almost all their friends were republicans. In fact, this whole region was strongly conservative and unfriendly to those of other stripes. What a conversion it's been, to shift to our current liberal majority. It gives me faith in humanity, to see that so many areas of our country have rejected the ugliness and self-serving greed of republicans and are becoming even more blue, in the face of this current abomination in the White House and the redneck states. There will be a wailing and a gnashing of teeth among that bunch, when they have to answer for their attempts to run our ship-of-state onto the rocks.

And it is way past time for the conservative voices who recognize the destruction that is being done, to speak up and condemn it, as the quoted author in the OP has done.
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Old 04-27-2019, 01:51 AM
 
27,624 posts, read 21,115,129 times
Reputation: 11095
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve McDonald View Post
By the time I was 8 years old, I had already realized that republicanism was antithetical to freedom, equality and democracy. And both my parents and almost all their friends were republicans. In fact, this whole region was strongly conservative and unfriendly to those of other stripes. What a conversion it's been, to shift to our current liberal majority. It gives me faith in humanity, to see that so many areas of our country have rejected the ugliness and self-serving greed of republicans and are becoming even more blue, in the face of this current abomination in the White House and the redneck states. There will be a wailing and a gnashing of teeth among that bunch, when they have to answer for their attempts to run our ship-of-state onto the rocks.

And it is way past time for the conservative voices who recognize the destruction that is being done, to speak up and condemn it, as the quoted author in the OP has done.
Some are but the Senate is a total swamp and is now useless...they are either blackmailable or just corrupt to the bone and scared of being primaried. Not an ounce of integrity in almost the entire GOP.

Fox Judge Napolitano: Trump IS Guilty of Obstruction of Justice
https://www.esquire.com/news-politic...on-of-justice/

Retired Army Lt. Col. Ralph Peters talks to CNN's Anderson Cooper

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XolimveZdrQ
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Old 04-27-2019, 02:13 AM
 
Location: Honolulu/DMV Area/NYC
30,612 posts, read 18,187,363 times
Reputation: 34462
Quote:
Originally Posted by atltechdude View Post
Actually no, a truly democratic vote would have gone the other way.
Why do you believe that? If you are referring to the popular vote, then a campaign for the popular vote would have been run very differently. You can't look to the popular vote outcome in a campaign for the electoral college and make the statement you make with a straight face.
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