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From this person's perspective it is the home school and private schools that are excelling in quality students.
If there is any hope for the future it is in them.
Public schools were failing 50 years ago it's only getting worse.
Democrat/liberal influence is best at tearing down, not building. fact
Yep.
And 95% of people here will disagree. But it's the truth.
Was it Clinton that passed the no child left behind act? I think that started it then went down hill when their parents got lazy.
No Child Left Behind passed in 2001, and was a bipartisan effort signed into law by GWB. It was what many school officials called 'unfunded mandates'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus
"Los Angeles Unified School District (LAUSD) with 660,000 students in K-12 has already eliminated 90% of shop classes and it looks like the rest will be gone by the end of the 2013."
Shop classes aren't the same as vocational training.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot1
Yet the AFT, and NEA control schools and school spending.
Your local school board controls schools and spending, within whatever restrictions and requirements are placed on the local district by the state.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake
As others have posted-we only provide any exposure to the trades in a small percentage of schools. No HS program is really going to prepare anyone for a career in the trades, but it will give them an idea what such work is about and let the kids know there are opportunities.
Taking a semester of wood shop isn't going to give any kid an idea of what it's like to be a plumber or a welder, or a hair stylist or an auto mechanic.
Every school district I've ever lived in has had a county or regional vocational school with multi-year programs that do train high school students to enter the trades - plumbing, HVAC, auto mechanic, cosmetologist, electrician, welder, food service, etc. Do those not exist universally?
The unions have veto power. If they do not like a decision made within the education establishment, that decision will not get made. At least here in Washington State, the teachers' union (WEA) is widely considered the single most powerful political player in the state.
In my opinion, public sector unionism is the single biggest reason for decline in the quality of both education and law enforcement. It's why we have cops doing life for murder, collecting their police pension from a prison cell. It's why we have teachers collecting a salary after having been caught dead-to-rights sexting with high school students. It's why we have incompetent teachers sitting in 'rubber rooms,' collecting a full salary.
We didn't have that before the rise of public sector unions starting around 1970. The Janus case, which made public sector union membership voluntary, may change this, but it's too soon to tell. Public sector unions were never willing to reform in the face of some of their absurdities, so the courts did it for them.
I'm in a right to work state. No teacher unions. except professional organizations. Most of the teachers in my town vote R. Only 1/3 belong to the teacher organizations. That is to cover their lawyer should they be sued. The ISD will not defend them but the teacher's associations will. That's the only reason to belong. That's what I'm told by the rep from my district.
"What has gone up is the fraction of dysfunctional one parent homes"
True AND MOST public school teachers are liberals think a college education" IS the only answer no matter what the courses the kids take.
There are plenty of two parent homes that are dysfunctional. We had one example of a teacher who took a lot of gaff from one boy. Swearing at her, distracting the class so she couldn't teach. Finally, she really yelled at him and punished him. Well, the parents came to the school. The father (there were two parents, bad parents) was one of these gruff, he-man types and he threatened to sue the school system. So the teacher got fired! She said it ruined her life. Once a teacher is fired, they are black listed and usually will never be able to teach again.
That is one example of a defective two parent family. And there are many examples of single mothers who manage to control their kids and they are model students. I was a teacher and I saw a lot.
BTW, you shouldn't categorize liberals as thinking everyone should go to college. We don't think that at all. You are generalizing things to fit in with your agenda but it's not true. And for those who do choose college, it shouldn't be free either.
Funny one of my good friends is partner of the biggest electrical contracting company in the are and they PAY for the new hires to go to apprenticeship school at night WHILE they work during the day
"it's a well placed spin though for business to avoid these costs"
We KNOW your anti business bias
Because "your good friend" does something, it does not negate the point.
So...how did our schools become so dysfunctional in terms of preparing students for the career world...and what do we do about it?
Most education is pure indoctrination these days. And outside of a handful of college majors, a college education is not going to get you many places. Many students are finding this out the hard way and are saddled with record debt making things even worse. I think if people stopped majoring in the 75%+ of college majors that are completely worthless in the job market, and the government stopped backing all of these worthless degrees, it would bring very positive change to the entire system.
Everywhere we are seeing the demands for skilled trades people. Mechanics, welders, machinists, contractors, carpenters, electricians, plumbers, etc. These jobs are paying better than a great number of "white collar" jobs-without the financial burden and massive debt of so many 4-year degree programs.
I look back to when I was in high school (yeah, hard to believe I can actually remember that long ago). Trades of any kind were not promoted. Our "guidance counselor" was a nice old lady-but utterly clueless and useless about anything. Well, maybe baking cookies, but nothing involving aiding kids towards finding a good career. Fortunately we had a half-way decent shop program, so I got to spend a few years with auto-shop and machine shop classes. And we had an OK "design" (drafting) program. All of which helped me in my engineering career-but were not things the school focused on.
Things have gotten even worse in the years since. In addition to out education industry pushing everyone to college, many schools have dropped "shop" classes or anything else that taught useful life skills. Our teachers only know what they have been exposed to-and that of course is teaching. For the most part they have no experience in the "real world" where production and making things are important and rewarded. They don't have the experience to provide such guidance and mentoring for our kids. (not an attack on teachers-it's just what they know for the most part. There are exceptions-teachers that worked in industry before getting into teaching. By far the best college professors I had were of this type).
So...how did our schools become so dysfunctional in terms of preparing students for the career world...and what do we do about it?
Schools are not dysfunctional. And it’s not the teachers who decide the curriculum so stop blaming them. Yes, we need trade schools for those who don’t want to go to college. They can also join join a union that will train them in the skill
Most education is pure indoctrination these days. And outside of a handful of college majors, a college education is not going to get you many places. Many students are finding this out the hard way and are saddled with record debt making things even worse. I think if people stopped majoring in the 75%+ of college majors that are completely worthless in the job market, and the government stopped backing all of these worthless degrees, it would bring very positive change to the entire system.
Which majors are these that make up the 75% that are worthless?
Everywhere we are seeing the demands for skilled trades people. Mechanics, welders, machinists, contractors, carpenters, electricians, plumbers, etc. These jobs are paying better than a great number of "white collar" jobs-without the financial burden and massive debt of so many 4-year degree programs.
I look back to when I was in high school (yeah, hard to believe I can actually remember that long ago). Trades of any kind were not promoted. Our "guidance counselor" was a nice old lady-but utterly clueless and useless about anything. Well, maybe baking cookies, but nothing involving aiding kids towards finding a good career. Fortunately we had a half-way decent shop program, so I got to spend a few years with auto-shop and machine shop classes. And we had an OK "design" (drafting) program. All of which helped me in my engineering career-but were not things the school focused on.
Things have gotten even worse in the years since. In addition to out education industry pushing everyone to college, many schools have dropped "shop" classes or anything else that taught useful life skills. Our teachers only know what they have been exposed to-and that of course is teaching. For the most part they have no experience in the "real world" where production and making things are important and rewarded. They don't have the experience to provide such guidance and mentoring for our kids. (not an attack on teachers-it's just what they know for the most part. There are exceptions-teachers that worked in industry before getting into teaching. By far the best college professors I had were of this type).
So...how did our schools become so dysfunctional in terms of preparing students for the career world...and what do we do about it?
Don't know where you went to school but I'm 52 and our county growing up had two votech centric high schools. There were also two higher learning centers, one with a big drama dept, another math and science centric and mine was language, horticulture and drama.
My kids are now at MSU, but their high school also had a very vibrant votech dept, teaching welding, auto repair, carpentry...
Not sure if you're up to speed, but a lot of kids are just slackers and don't take advantage of these opportunities that exist. That's not the school systems fault- that's parents AND students.
Everywhere we are seeing the demands for skilled trades people. Mechanics, welders, machinists, contractors, carpenters, electricians, plumbers, etc. These jobs are paying better than a great number of "white collar" jobs-without the financial burden and massive debt of so many 4-year degree programs.
I look back to when I was in high school (yeah, hard to believe I can actually remember that long ago). Trades of any kind were not promoted. Our "guidance counselor" was a nice old lady-but utterly clueless and useless about anything. Well, maybe baking cookies, but nothing involving aiding kids towards finding a good career. Fortunately we had a half-way decent shop program, so I got to spend a few years with auto-shop and machine shop classes. And we had an OK "design" (drafting) program. All of which helped me in my engineering career-but were not things the school focused on.
Things have gotten even worse in the years since. In addition to out education industry pushing everyone to college, many schools have dropped "shop" classes or anything else that taught useful life skills. Our teachers only know what they have been exposed to-and that of course is teaching. For the most part they have no experience in the "real world" where production and making things are important and rewarded. They don't have the experience to provide such guidance and mentoring for our kids. (not an attack on teachers-it's just what they know for the most part. There are exceptions-teachers that worked in industry before getting into teaching. By far the best college professors I had were of this type).
So...how did our schools become so dysfunctional in terms of preparing students for the career world...and what do we do about it?
When they sacrificed actual education in favor of “social justice” agendas.
True education sometimes causes “hurt feelings” but ultimately the experience is beneficial.
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I think that started it then went down hill when their parents got lazy.
