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Old 05-05-2019, 12:30 PM
 
20,955 posts, read 8,664,723 times
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Western Civilization has always been about inequality...and about reaping the rewards of trade from the "rest of world".

Will Western Capitalists and the 1% continue to prosper??

Of course!

Will the USA....in general, see a much happier populace? NO WAY.

So, something is disconnected....unless all we do is count the amount of money that can be printed.

The "West", which I assume means W. Europe, Canada and the USA, needs to pivot. The Pivot needs to be NOT attempting to control the entire world and remake it in our image.

This is an impossible task but we never seem to give up...and trying it comes out of the hide of our own people.

So, let's give up...shall we? Why not just become a member of the world?
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Old 05-05-2019, 12:30 PM
 
4,657 posts, read 4,116,410 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak80 View Post
So long as that is sustainable, that might work. But how could that be sustainable over the long run? What happens when the number of religious immigrants dries up? Or maybe it won’t dry up. Maybe some continents will be “religious breeder” areas and other continents will become “secular population sinks”?
Now that population growth in the Middle East and Latin America have stabilized, really India and Africa are the only tow population centers (that I know of) that are still expanding. In twenty years, industrialized countries might be competing for their labor, unless technology renders them completely obsolete.
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Old 05-05-2019, 12:32 PM
 
56,988 posts, read 35,179,016 times
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Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
I consider all doomsday predictions to be pretty much nonsense. These predictions have been happening for ages.

Some people like to believe all kinds of weird things will happen in the world, none of which ever do.

Birth, life and death will go on as usual... for eons.
That’s generally how I see it. Man shouldn’t be too obsessed with the world that goes on after they’re long gone. Humans have always been pretty good at solving their own problems if they’re given an adequate chance to do so.
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Old 05-05-2019, 12:35 PM
 
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Originally Posted by 2nd trick op View Post

And tested democracies with fully-developed economies have no incentive to settle their differences on the battlefield; hopefully, that's a lesson we will all continue to learn and reinforce.
You and I may have learned that lesson (being a 60's hippie I never thought anything else was true), but need I mention Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam and Korea?

I hope you are right but history argues against it. All we have seemed to learn is that we want 1,000X as many of the other side to die...as our own. The difference is purchased with money...debt.

Isn't it interesting how the vast growth of our debt seems to align with the "all volunteer" military in some ways? That is, these days it is just another vast corporation that needs to pay big time in one way or another...

That has broken many a country throughout history.

IF, and this is a big if, we didn't get into wars of choice...then the military would probably be able to be stocked and maintained at much lower prices. National Service and all of that.

At this point the USA has 100% given up on ever balancing the budget...due to two things. Military and Medical.

When we actually fix both of those....then we are on our way to some kind of sustainability.
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Old 05-05-2019, 01:35 PM
 
Location: Ohio
24,621 posts, read 19,152,432 times
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Originally Posted by Freak80 View Post
Prediction: western civilization is heading for disaster because birth rates in western societies are heavily dependent on religion.
The accuracy of the statement is 0 on a scale of 0-100 with 100 being the highest degree of accuracy.

Birth rates in all societies are dependent on Affluence, and Affluence alone, and no other factor.

Affluence is a combination of overall economic development, Standard of Living, basic freedoms and a few other things, but religion is not one of them.

When you're in a 0 Level Agrarian Economy based on subsistence agriculture and your Standard of Living is on a par with 1640's Colonial America, you need a lot of children.

You cannot spend 60-80/hours a week tending your fields, and herding your animals, and tending your home, and getting water, and traveling to other villages to trade your goods and such.

Seeing how you cannot pay anyone to work for you, you have children.

Children are labor; that's what they're for.

Your oldest child tends the fields with you, and if you need to travel, no problem. Another child tends your herds, while another child tends the shack you call home and keeps the fires burning.

Actually, that child is making charcoal. Charcoal is more efficient than wood or sod, so your wood fuel supply lasts longer.

Your wife and younger children are spending 2-8 hours a day to get water so you can cook and clean and drink.

Children are also your social security, in the event you can no longer work.

That's pretty much 80% of Africa. It's also a large chunk of Central and South America.

Yeah, the White people, you know, the European Mexicans and Brasilians and Argentinians and such are all college educated and have jobs, but the tribal people, you know, the "Native Americans" don't.

And it's the Middle East and Central Asia, and eastern Russia and a large part of Southeast Asia.

Electricity is a game-changer. So is running water. About 3 Billion people have neither.

Electricity brings mechanization, and that means you need only spend 10-20 hours a week farming, instead of 60-80.

It also provides other job opportunities so you don't have to farm for an income. At first, any warm body will do, but later it requires high school education, and then high school education plus vocational or technical training, and then college education and then advanced college degrees.

All those things combine to delay both marriage and child-birth.

For one, you have freedoms you never had and that is the freedom to pursue professional, career, social, financial and personal goals, and the pursuit of those goals often interferes with marriage and child-birth.

If you're worried about the world population, don't be, because the instant those 3 Billion people get electricity and running water, their birth rates will instantly start declining.

China and Russia are attempting to develop Africa, but the US created AFRICOM (the Africa Command) to thwart the development of those States and destabilize their economies to keep them from advancing.

I guess we'll see how it all turns out, but hopefully the Africans win.

Anyway, your global population should peak around 16 Billion to 17 Billion then decline slightly then remain unchanged.
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Old 05-05-2019, 01:47 PM
 
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17 billion? were is the energy required for such a yuge increase supposed to come from? may i ask?


i see thorium as a helpful source but 17 billion..global chaos
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Old 05-05-2019, 02:27 PM
 
Location: USA
18,489 posts, read 9,151,071 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
The accuracy of the statement is 0 on a scale of 0-100 with 100 being the highest degree of accuracy.

Birth rates in all societies are dependent on Affluence, and Affluence alone, and no other factor.
I don’t doubt that affluence is a huge factor.

But religion plays a major role too. I’m mainly talking about “conservative” forms of religion like fundamentalist Christianity, the conservative faction of the Catholic Church, the Amish, Islam, etc. These regions tend to frown on birth control and abortion (every sperm/fetus is sacred) and treat wives and children as property of the husband. And they teach that your quality of life on earth is secondary to populating Heaven. All of that is good for fertility.

Ever seen the movie Idiocracy by Mike Judge or The Meaning of Life by Monty Python?
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Old 05-05-2019, 04:31 PM
 
Location: moved
13,641 posts, read 9,698,765 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak80 View Post
So long as that is sustainable, that might work. But how could that be sustainable over the long run? What happens when the number of religious immigrants dries up? Or maybe it won’t dry up. Maybe some continents will be “religious breeder” areas and other continents will become “secular population sinks”?
Basically, yes. We already have a similar dynamic in America. More children are born in the religious Heartland. The more restless and enterprising among them (and, selectively, the less socially-conservative) move to the urbanized Coasts, where fecundity is lower.
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Old 05-05-2019, 04:36 PM
 
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China has a lower birth rate than the US, and it is expected to drop in the future.
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Old 05-05-2019, 05:26 PM
 
Location: Clyde Hill, WA
6,061 posts, read 2,008,045 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
I consider all doomsday predictions to be pretty much nonsense. These predictions have been happening for ages.

Some people like to believe all kinds of weird things will happen in the world, none of which ever do.

Birth, life and death will go on as usual... for eons.
There was a thread on this a while back.

good post regarding predictions by 'Mathguy.'
//www.city-data.com/forum/52765396-post12.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by MathGuy
The problem with both of the first two examples that the OP correctly points out is that EXTRAPOLATION without REACTION is flawed methodology over and over. (Even if you can get on every major media outlet and push the story).

It's like John is standing on the traintracks, here comes a train in 40 seconds, oh well, john was crushed by a train. Oh wait! John actually MOVED! Holy CRAP that's nigh impossible! Didn't see that one coming!


Especially would like to call out the "population bomb" crap because I heard that as a kid. Let's all gather together and thank "Big agriculture" for all the technological developements that more than doubled US crop yields in the past couple decades.

Now let's be fair, a lot of predictions have come true. Generally those that didn't get politicized and turned into hyperbole. So there is that to consider.
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