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Old 05-07-2019, 05:37 PM
 
20,956 posts, read 8,578,120 times
Reputation: 14048

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Joshua View Post
How do you know this guy didn't kill someone back in his home country before he came here and lived a model life?

Do you see where I'm going with this??
No, I have no idea where you are going with this. He may have peed on the side of a car too.

You obviously need to stay away from this thread. You don't get it. Read the post above. This is not about one person.......

Lots of Americans hurt and killed people and stole stuff too....who were not caught. That is not the subject of this thread.

Hey, what if some guy obstructed Justice and 600+ of the top prosecutors in the USA agreed it was clear and criminal? What if the guy was an American?

See where I am going with this? Yep, has nothing to do with the convo.
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Old 05-07-2019, 05:41 PM
 
20,956 posts, read 8,578,120 times
Reputation: 14048
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus View Post
He did not present the proper forms if he was here illegally, he submitted fakes, forges, ID theft, etc.

Speeding will not get even an illegal deported, unless there are other circumstances like prior criminal record, or it was more than just speeding like reckless driving. Even if so, so what, he is here illegally, he has zero legal right to stay in a country he does not have permission to be in. Being here 1 year, 14 years, or 100 years, does not change this.
Let's not mince words here.

I'm saying he presented the very same - the very ones - that all those corporations, contractors, farms, meat packing plants and developers in Florida and Texas are taking each and every day.

I'm saying that E-Verify didn't exist in any form at the time. I'm saying that the EMPLOYER had all the correct forms and paid all the correct taxes.

I am not saying he gave them legal forms. How would I know? Maybe they were legal but he was only allowed to be here a couple years? I don't know.

NONE of this has anything to do with the issue. I presented it in the OP......

Based on your posting, I'm not sure why Desantis just gave a pass to all Florida Employers and directly told them that the state NEEDED that labor.

If the Government says it's legal...well, it sort of is. That is, unless they make a law for employers to take responsibility, then it's legal...or OK, or regular, or normal....course of business.
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Old 05-07-2019, 05:44 PM
 
Location: Del Rio, TN
39,803 posts, read 26,299,592 times
Reputation: 25667
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
Just an anecdote.....

A very active businessman I know runs various enterprises including massive amounts of commercial real estate, a payroll services and a farm that raises very valuable animals. He injects vast amounts of money into the economy in terms of contractors, services, taxes, etc.

So...today I am talking to him and ask him about one of his "guy fridays" - a fella who seemed to be from C. America somewhere who has worked for him for more than a decade. Turn out guy got a speeding ticket and that was the end - he's not allowed back in this country for a decade.

The young man was single, maybe 35 and had worked for 14 years. He has presented 100% of the proper paperworks to the employer and ALL taxes were paid. His pay was $20 an hour and he also got a place to live, a vehicle and generally treated like a King. As one can imagine, he was a GREAT and honest worker.

Now he is gone. So my friend found a "American" who helps him sometimes....$35 an hour...
So you're saying that the criminal alien was both taking a job from an American worker, but also pushing down wages for the same job? That's kinda what we've been saying all along.
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Old 05-07-2019, 05:50 PM
 
20,956 posts, read 8,578,120 times
Reputation: 14048
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
So you're saying that the criminal alien was both taking a job from an American worker, but also pushing down wages for the same job? That's kinda what we've been saying all along.
No, I've heard the Trumpies on here many a time suggest that....

$20 an hour
Full benefits - including a car, housing, health care and more
NOT contractor status, but full payment of taxes, etc. on top of it...

Are good wages! Has that changed? Texas has a min wage of about 1/3rd of that!!

No, the point is the opposite. There are simply too many couch potato Americans who won't do that job for $20, $25 or even more. As I mentioned, the replacement guy is charging $35 and doing 1/3 the work.

So, effectively what you are saying is that general labor should pay $90-$100 an hour!

I'm glad to see you believe in living wages...but somehow I doubt you are paying someone $100 an hour to do work around your farm. Am I right???
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Old 05-07-2019, 06:02 PM
 
19,394 posts, read 6,440,042 times
Reputation: 12309
My takeaway is that an illegal alien took a job away from an American by being willing to work for below-market rates. Unfortunately for him, he violated traffic law and was deported, thus opening up the job for an American who should have had it all along, at fair market rates.
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Old 05-07-2019, 08:00 PM
 
20,956 posts, read 8,578,120 times
Reputation: 14048
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel976 View Post
My takeaway is that an illegal alien took a job away from an American by being willing to work for below-market rates. Unfortunately for him, he violated traffic law and was deported, thus opening up the job for an American who should have had it all along, at fair market rates.
As long as you willingly pay handymen well north of $60 an hour AND make sure they pay their taxes, insurance, workman's comp and the like...well, then, your take is completely valid.

I pay my American HVAC tech $160 and have no problem witrh it. The Employer I am talking about pays vast numbers of people these >$100 per hour rates each and every day.

But there certainly are not people lining up who will be at your beck and call for general operations....day in and day out...for any price. I had to wait 45+ days to get that $160 hr HVAC appt.

Which circles back to my point. If the Americans who are willing to work are in the higher end trades...then we still need millions who are not.

You are not addressing berry picking, etc. - what is the Market Wage that you feel Americans would work in hot muddy fields all day long...by the thousands...for? Please include all benefits and insurance and taxes paid in your estimates......

That may give you a slightly different take
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Old 05-07-2019, 08:12 PM
 
18,249 posts, read 8,054,140 times
Reputation: 13537
Craig, DeSantis was right on all counts...

We do need immigrants labor....

....and immigrants doing that labor have to be here legally

If they are not here legally.....they are a "illegal" immigrant and have to leave
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Old 05-07-2019, 08:33 PM
 
Location: Boston, MA
14,460 posts, read 11,208,515 times
Reputation: 8973
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
No, I have no idea where you are going with this. He may have peed on the side of a car too.

You obviously need to stay away from this thread. You don't get it. Read the post above. This is not about one person.......

Lots of Americans hurt and killed people and stole stuff too....who were not caught. That is not the subject of this thread.

Hey, what if some guy obstructed Justice and 600+ of the top prosecutors in the USA agreed it was clear and criminal? What if the guy was an American?

See where I am going with this? Yep, has nothing to do with the convo.
Point being, by the nature of how they got into the country, we don’t even know who these people are. Dontcha think it’s important to know who is entering our nation to stay?

If you don’t then you’re stupid.
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Old 05-07-2019, 08:41 PM
 
20,956 posts, read 8,578,120 times
Reputation: 14048
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrie22 View Post
Craig, DeSantis was right on all counts...

We do need immigrants labor....

....and immigrants doing that labor have to be here legally

If they are not here legally.....they are a "illegal" immigrant and have to leave
Corrie, Corrie!

You are not reading him in context!

What he is saying...and allowing....is "we currently have 800K illegal laborers in Florida and we need them today, tomorrow, next week and next month. Therefore, it is fine that they are illegal and we will do nothing to make Employers check them out".

As far as "legally" - using the wisdom you and others have mentioned many a time, doesn't the flowchart go like this???

1. ALL illegals in DeSantis state are sent back to where they came from.
2. Congress makes LAWS that allow for immigrant guest workers
3. Workers who qualify for said laws then apply for said job and legal guest worker, visa or citizenship application.
4. Workers wait until approved by Federal Government.
5. Workers gain entry into USA and apply at Employer in Florida.
6. Florida Employer checks to make certain said Employee has Fed OK and employee is registered and taxes are going to be paid, insurance and benefits given and treatment given under our labor laws.

Aren't we just at zero?

How can what he said be true when he didn't say to round them up and ship them back...but said just the exact opposite (we need them today...now...so let's keep them).

If one illegal is a criminal, what do you call a "leader" who says 800K of them are OK???
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Old 05-07-2019, 08:58 PM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
9,105 posts, read 13,124,520 times
Reputation: 10062
We heard the same argument so many times before. We cannot survive without the cheap labor!

But whether its illegals in 2019, child labor in the late 1800s or slavery in 1860, what it really is all about is wealthier business people trying to take advantage of other less advantaged people.
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