Harris ban import of AR-15 "Assault Weapons"...more ignorance (drugs, health care)

[Robert_J]

Originally Posted by rstevens62

These were not legal...thats why they were cheap. More often than not, drug dealers can get these types of guns too. They know they cannot charge $1000s because they are not legal.

Before 1986's closing of the NFA registry for full-autos, the price difference was negligible. A full auto AR-15 has three extra parts compared to the semi-auto version and a few common parts are different.



It's been over a year since I went to a gun show but at the last one, a pre-ban full-auto AR-15 was priced at $24,000.


Before 1986, you fill out a form and send it in with $200 to the ATF. When you get your tax stamp, go pick up your new full-auto gun. After 1986, the only difference is the gun isn't new and the cost has skyrocketed.

[drinkthekoolaid]

Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber

Practically are made in US, but some are foreign made.

As for "assault weapon", although not technically correct. everyone knows what people mean when they use that term. Bickering over such technicality is silly.

No. No one practically understands it. It doesn't make sense.

It's delibertely deceitful and misleading.

An stg44 is an assault rifle I'm going to butcher the German spelling but it was the first midsize rifle cartridge magazine fed automatic rifle. It was the sturmgewher 44.

That is an assault rifle. It was literally invented to be used to suppress enemies in combat to assault their position. It was a revolutionary design and the Germans have an interesting way of naming things.

An ar15 never has and never will be an assault rifle. AR15s are not used by a single military in the world. It's not a military weapon.

[Finn_Jarber]

Originally Posted by drinkthekoolaid

No. No one practically understands it. It doesn't make sense.

Everyone knows she is referring to AR-15 and AK-47 semi-automatic style rifles.

An stg44 is an assault rifle I'm going to butcher the German spelling but it was the first midsize rifle cartridge magazine fed automatic rifle. It was the sturmgewher 44.

Sure, but when gun-law proponents use the word, everyone knows what they are referring to. It is not productive to bicker over such technicality. Its a bit of a dodge.

Sturmgewehr 44 was not the first German assault rifle, the Maschinenkarabiner 42 was.

It was literally invented to be used to suppress enemies in combat to assault their position. It was a revolutionary design and the Germans have an interesting way of naming things.

And before that, they used bolt action rifles while assaulting enemy positions.

[Daryl_G]

Originally Posted by austinnerd

Gotta say, this has always bugged me. Not folks calling AR's "assault weapons", but the notion from many pro gun folks that someone calling an AR an "assault weapon" "does not have a brain". It reminds me a lot of folks ranting when someone incorrectly uses the word "font" when they are really referring to a "typeface" (which is the significant majority of people) or when folks say "wifi" when they really mean "the internet". Are they technically wrong, yes, they are. Should they be corrected, generally yes (though a lost cause on the whole font/face thing). Should they be ridiculed, I personally would say not. I think it makes pro gun folks sound petty and really does nothing to advance the notion that not all pro gun folks are frothing at the mouth bullies who are praying for WROL. Again, just my pet peeve, I'm sure many will disagree

This is why Nerds of any subject are difficult to talk too about their nerd expertise of their choice.

Yep there are many groups that do this regularly:
1) Car Guy: thinks everyone should know the headlight shape of a 69 Dodge Dart

2) Tech guy: Thinks everyone is a idiot because people come to them for minor issues. Doesn't realize those minor issues keep them busy so their not fired and outsourced for occasional support needs.

3) Health Care Providers: Feel its their job to talk through every medical scene on Television to remind us what is "wrong" or not "how you do it". Its Greys Anatomy, nothing in the show is real so ease up, at least that's why my wife keeps telling me.

Look, people don't care what a AR-15 is classified as. What people see is that weapon being used in every clip from Iraq for the last 10 years. My custom samurai looking sword in my office is not in fact a samurai sword and is a European design, but I get why my Mom calls it that every time she sees it.

[workingclasshero]

Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber

Practically are made in US, but some are foreign made.

As for "assault weapon", although not technically correct. everyone knows what people mean when they use that term. Bickering over such technicality is silly.

Originally Posted by Daryl_G

This is why Nerds of any subject are difficult to talk too about their nerd expertise of their choice.

Yep there are many groups that do this regularly:
1) Car Guy: thinks everyone should know the headlight shape of a 69 Dodge Dart

2) Tech guy: Thinks everyone is a idiot because people come to them for minor issues. Doesn't realize those minor issues keep them busy so their not fired and outsourced for occasional support needs.

3) Health Care Providers: Feel its their job to talk through every medical scene on Television to remind us what is "wrong" or not "how you do it". Its Greys Anatomy, nothing in the show is real so ease up, at least that's why my wife keeps telling me.

Look, people don't care what a AR-15 is classified as. What people see is that weapon being used in every clip from Iraq for the last 10 years. My custom samurai looking sword in my office is not in fact a samurai sword and is a European design, but I get why my Mom calls it that every time she sees it.

its not bickering, we are not nerds about it


why don't we start with defining what an assault weapon is???


the most of these politico's can not define what "military style" is
or..... what an assault weapon is




before she should be proposing a law the definition needs to be clearly established


define assault weapon.....

an ar15 is NOT an assault weapon

define (you want a ban/regulation) of what an assault weapon is

everyone of these ? is was an ar15 could have....with the exception of caliber size (and even that too)

is it caliber size
is it magazine(round storage) size
is it semi-auto
is it a handguard to protect the hands from a hot barrel
is it that it can have a scope mounted
is it that it can have a bipod mounted
is it because its (as the rolling stones said) Painted Black


nearly everyone of those option is available on nearly every weapon...to include handguns

the only one that is not available on nearly every weapon is: and its NOT available on the ar15 without an ILLEGAL mod (or grandfathered M16)....is it full auto

the ar15 is available:
in different calibers
in different magazine(round storage) size
in different styles of handguard to protect the hands from a hot barrel
in different scope mounts
in different bipod mounted
in different colors

nearly every rifle has those different options,,,over 65% of ALL rifles are semi

so if YOU are going to say BAN assault weapons LIKE the ar15...you are meaning nearly all rifles....AND HANDGUNS...... so make a definition otherwise you ARE SAYING ban them all..including handguns and pump shotguns


what about my tube magazine lever action Henry 44mag rifle (like what the "Rifleman" had but full length )


so which is it ...ban an UNDEFINED set of weapons(which really means ban all).. or maintain our constitutional rights that shall no be infringed

[Finn_Jarber]

Originally Posted by workingclasshero

its not bickering, we are not nerds about it

why don't we start with defining what an assault weapon is???

We already know:

1. What the technically / politically correct definition of an assault rifle is
2. What pro gun-law people mean when they use the word

Bickering over the word is a dodge aka deflection, because it makes the conversation about the word, and not the topic, which is the proposed laws (whatever they may be). Their intention is to ban semi-auto rifles like AR-15. They can call then whatever they want, but that is the intent.

before she should be proposing a law the definition needs to be clearly established

define assault weapon.....

Of course they'll define it. They already have, and their definition includes those rifles you do not consider "assault rifles", but if their definition ends up being a law, your definition becomes irrelevant.

[Robert_J]

Originally Posted by Daryl_G

This is why Nerds of any subject are difficult to talk too about their nerd expertise of their choice.

Yep there are many groups that do this regularly:
1) Car Guy: thinks everyone should know the headlight shape of a 69 Dodge Dart

2) Tech guy: Thinks everyone is a idiot because people come to them for minor issues. Doesn't realize those minor issues keep them busy so their not fired and outsourced for occasional support needs.

3) Health Care Providers: Feel its their job to talk through every medical scene on Television to remind us what is "wrong" or not "how you do it". Its Greys Anatomy, nothing in the show is real so ease up, at least that's why my wife keeps telling me.

Look, people don't care what a AR-15 is classified as. What people see is that weapon being used in every clip from Iraq for the last 10 years. My custom samurai looking sword in my office is not in fact a samurai sword and is a European design, but I get why my Mom calls it that every time she sees it.

10 years? Do you even watch the news? How about historical shows on the Vietnam conflict? The AR-15 and it's M-16 cousin have been used in every conflict since the 1960s. The semi-auto civilian AR-15 has been on sale to the public for 55 years. Yes, the current version looks different but that is only because the wooden parts were replaced with lighter, more practical plastic and aluminum versions. It's like buying a Honda and bolting on a big wing. It looks faster but does nothing for the performance.

[workingclasshero]

Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber

We already know:

1. What the technically / politically correct definition of an assault rifle is
2. What pro gun-law people mean when they use the word

Bickering over the word is a dodge aka deflection, because it makes the conversation about the word, and not the topic, which is the proposed laws (whatever they may be). Their intention is to ban semi-auto rifles like AR-15. They can call then whatever they want, but that is the intent.

Of course they'll define it. They already have, and their definition includes those rifles you do not consider "assault rifles", but if their definition ends up being a law, your definition becomes irrelevant.

no we DON'T already know what the TECHNICAL definition is


what makes it an assault weapon??


is that it is black..ie gun bluing???


is it caliber size.... is bigger than a .308cal (7.62mm) or are we looking at all sizes like a tiny .22 or .223


is it magazine(round storage) size..... so is a STOCK 15 round mag on a berretta or a 20 rd mag on a ar15 an assault...or is it only when someone uses a 30rd mag??

is it semi-auto...... or full auto.......

is it a handguard to protect the hands from a hot barrel

is it that it can have a scope mounted

is it that it can have a bipod mounted






please by all means DEFINE it...because saying "ar15 TYPE" assault weapons....means ALL weapons




at least be honest in the debate....the fascist liberals are after ALL weapons

[austinnerd]

Originally Posted by spankys bbq

...
Do you really think this is not the kind of thing that deserves ridicule? I certainly do.
...

Then we'll agree to disagree. While I agree that they are using the terminology incorrectly and for political gains, I feel the focus on that terminology on pro gunners part isn't particularly effective or useful. You feel differently, viva la difference.

[Daryl_G]

Originally Posted by workingclasshero

its not bickering, we are not nerds about it


why don't we start with defining what an assault weapon is???


the most of these politico's can not define what "military style" is
or..... what an assault weapon is




before she should be proposing a law the definition needs to be clearly established


define assault weapon.....

an ar15 is NOT an assault weapon

define (you want a ban/regulation) of what an assault weapon is

everyone of these ? is was an ar15 could have....with the exception of caliber size (and even that too)

is it caliber size
is it magazine(round storage) size
is it semi-auto
is it a handguard to protect the hands from a hot barrel
is it that it can have a scope mounted
is it that it can have a bipod mounted
is it because its (as the rolling stones said) Painted Black


nearly everyone of those option is available on nearly every weapon...to include handguns

the only one that is not available on nearly every weapon is: and its NOT available on the ar15 without an ILLEGAL mod (or grandfathered M16)....is it full auto

the ar15 is available:
in different calibers
in different magazine(round storage) size
in different styles of handguard to protect the hands from a hot barrel
in different scope mounts
in different bipod mounted
in different colors

nearly every rifle has those different options,,,over 65% of ALL rifles are semi

so if YOU are going to say BAN assault weapons LIKE the ar15...you are meaning nearly all rifles....AND HANDGUNS...... so make a definition otherwise you ARE SAYING ban them all..including handguns and pump shotguns


what about my tube magazine lever action Henry 44mag rifle (like what the "Rifleman" had but full length )


so which is it ...ban an UNDEFINED set of weapons(which really means ban all).. or maintain our constitutional rights that shall no be infringed

Yep I do think that is the inevitable end point. Same tactic used by those opposing abortion. Push until you effectively "banned" their use through hoops and barriers. I completely agree with you but as I stated, just because we know better doesn't mean the general public cares.