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View Poll Results: Should Government agencies be privatized?
Yes 15 27.27%
No 40 72.73%
Voters: 55. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-18-2019, 10:56 AM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,856 posts, read 17,350,188 times
Reputation: 14459

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
Not that the following will make one iota of difference to an irrational absolutist; relevant history for rational folks only:



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit..._corporate_law
I never signed any Constitution so that only applies to the sliding-out-of-a-vagina-equates-to-consent crowd.
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Old 05-18-2019, 11:13 AM
 
Location: *
13,242 posts, read 4,919,895 times
Reputation: 3461
Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
I never signed any Constitution so that only applies to the sliding-out-of-a-vagina-equates-to-consent crowd.
Meaning the rational non-absolutist crowd.
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Old 05-18-2019, 11:14 AM
 
Location: Texas
37,949 posts, read 17,851,639 times
Reputation: 10371
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Bond 007 View Post
Some might be able to.

Most can't or shouldn't.
Why?
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Old 05-18-2019, 11:19 AM
 
Location: Texas
37,949 posts, read 17,851,639 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToyVW55 View Post
No, they should not be.


While they certainly have their faults, an oversight or public "protection" agency should not be put in the hands of those that have private or financial interests as their main motivation. They should be neutral entities above the demands of money. Once money gets in the mix, any notion of serving the public for the greater good goes out the window. It's become a "fox in the henhouse" scenario.
You made this all up. We know that the private sector has incentive. If they fail they loose the job. Company A in charge of trash pickup does a bad job or gets too expensive they get replaced. THAT is incentive.

You actually think the people in the Dept of Motor vehicles cares about we the people or do they care about a paycheck? Is that what happens? Someone who works for government all of a sudden cares about their fellow man? lol Keep telling yourself that if it helps you sleep at night.
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Old 05-18-2019, 11:34 AM
 
Location: San Diego, CA
1,702 posts, read 1,918,607 times
Reputation: 1305
Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
Which government industries would those be?

How about courts and our judicial system? If you make them profit based justice would quickly go out the window.
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Old 05-18-2019, 11:41 AM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,856 posts, read 17,350,188 times
Reputation: 14459
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffrow1 View Post
How about courts and our judicial system? If you make them profit based justice would quickly go out the window.
No, it would make private insurance companies responsible for making victims whole again. The pressure would be glorious...free individuals forming contractual agreements with one another, agreed upon dispute resolution councils, and insurance companies all working in their own self-interests would assure the best outcome for all parties involved.

Capitalism means you compete. And under these conditions the competition is fair.
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Old 05-18-2019, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,856 posts, read 17,350,188 times
Reputation: 14459
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
Meaning the rational non-absolutist crowd.
I'm all ears on how one consents by being expelled from a birthing canal. If you make it morally and logically consistent I'll go back to statism.

I'll even promise to be a happy slave like the rest of you folks.

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Old 05-19-2019, 11:00 AM
 
Location: *
13,242 posts, read 4,919,895 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffrow1 View Post
How about courts and our judicial system? If you make them profit based justice would quickly go out the window.
Their nonsensical answer to your common sense question?

"The answer is that systems of law would be produced for profit on the open market, just as books and bras are produced today."

Quote:
I come home one night and find my television set missing. I immediately call my protection agency, Tannahelp Inc., to report the theft. They send an agent. He checks the automatic camera which Tannahelp, as part of their service, installed in my living room and discovers a picture of one Joe Bock lugging the television set out the door. The Tannahelp agent contacts Joe, informs him that Tannahelp has reason to believe he is in possession of my television set, and suggests he return it, along with an extra ten dollars to pay for Tannahelp's time and trouble in locating Joe. Joe replies that he has never seen my television set in his life and tells the Tannahelp agent to go to hell.

The agent points out that until Tannahelp is convinced there has been a mistake, he must proceed on the assumption that the television set is my property. Six Tannahelp employees, all large and energetic, will be at Joe's door next morning to collect the set. Joe, in response, informs the agent that he also has a protection agency, Dawn Defense, and that his contract with them undoubtedly requires them to protect him if six goons try to break into his house and steal his television set.

The stage seems set for a nice little war between Tannahelp and Dawn Defense. It is precisely such a possibility that has led some libertarians who are not anarchists, most notably Ayn Rand, to reject the possibility of competing free-market protection agencies.

But wars are very expensive, and Tannahelp and Dawn Defense are both profit-making corporations, more interested in saving money than face. I think the rest of the story would be less violent than Miss Rand supposed.

The Tannahelp agent calls up his opposite number at Dawn Defense. 'We've got a problem. . . .' After explaining the situation, he points out that if Tannahelp sends six men and Dawn eight, there will be a fight. Someone might even get hurt. Whoever wins, by the time the conflict is over it will be expensive for both sides. They might even have to start paying their employees higher wages to make up for the risk. Then both firms will be forced to raise their rates. If they do, Murbard Ltd., an aggressive new firm which has been trying to get established in the area, will undercut their prices and steal their customers. There must be a better solution.

The man from Tannahelp suggests that the better solution is arbitration. They will take the dispute over my television set to a reputable local arbitration firm. If the arbitrator decides that Joe is innocent, Tannahelp agrees to pay Joe and Dawn Defense an indemnity to make up for their time and trouble. If he is found guilty, Dawn Defense will accept the verdict; since the television set is not Joe's, they have no obligation to protect him when the men from Tannahelp come to seize it.

What I have described is a very makeshift arrangement. In practice, once anarcho-capitalist institutions were well established, protection agencies would anticipate such difficulties and arrange contracts in advance, before specific conflicts occurred, specifying the arbitrator who would settle them.

In such an anarchist society, who would make the laws? On what basis would the private arbitrator decide what acts were criminal and what their punishments should be? The answer is that systems of law would be produced for profit on the open market, just as books and bras are produced today. There could be competition among different brands of law, just as there is competition among different brands of cars.

In such a society there might be many courts and even many legal systems. Each pair of protection agencies agree in advance on which court they will use in case of conflict. Thus the laws under which a particular case is decided are determined implicitly by advance agreement between the protection agencies whose customers are involved. In principle, there could be a different court and a different set of laws for every pair of protection agencies. In practice, many agencies would probably find it convenient to patronize the same courts, and many courts might find it convenient to adopt identical, or nearly identical, systems of law in order to simplify matters for their customers.

Before labelling a society in which different people are under different laws chaotic and unjust, remember that in our society the law under which you are judged depends on the country, state, and even city in which you happen to be. Under the arrangements I am describing, it depends instead on your protective agency and the agency of the person you accuse of a crime or who accuses you of a crime.

In such a society law is produced on the market. A court supports itself by charging for the service of arbitrating disputes. Its success depends on its reputation for honesty, reliability, and promptness and on the desirability to potential customers of the particular set of laws it judges by. The immediate customers are protection agencies. But the protection agency is itself selling a product to its customers. Part of that product is the legal system, or systems, of the courts it patronizes and under which its customers will consequently be judged. Each protection agency will try to patronize those courts under whose legal system its customers would like to live.
Chapter 29: POLICE, COURTS, AND LAWS---ON THE MARKET

In other words, it's loopy circuitous nonsense based on circular logic.
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