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Old 12-03-2019, 09:56 AM
 
Location: Itinerant
8,278 posts, read 6,276,391 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T0103E View Post
As far as the Nirvana fallacy goes, our argument is not that a free market is perfect, at all. The argument is that allowing people to interact and trade freely is 1) morally superior and 2) leads to better results than someone imposing their master plan on society...as counterintuitive as that might sound.

Said another way...there is no utopia, and no person or group knows how best to “run” everyone’s lives. Central planners can never have the aggregate knowledge that the market does.

The market isn’t magical. It’s a massive web of people who work together using their particular expertise to create things of value, trade, etc. The top-down approach runs on the assumption that a person or committee has more knowledge and wisdom than the collective knowledge of everyone else.
The other advantage is it isolates those who are not involved from direct costs of losses (like TARP). It also promotes awareness of what you're using, because there's no regulation other than contractual agreements, you have to be mindful of the risks, thus making people more prudent.
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Old 12-03-2019, 11:57 AM
 
Location: Madison, WI
5,302 posts, read 2,355,944 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
The other advantage is it isolates those who are not involved from direct costs of losses (like TARP). It also promotes awareness of what you're using, because there's no regulation other than contractual agreements, you have to be mindful of the risks, thus making people more prudent.
True...false sense of security. That made me think of Bob Murphy’s example of the guy who designed an intersection or roundabout with no traffic signs, and then walked backwards into it to prove how safe it was. People tend to pay more attention instead of going on autopilot.
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Old 12-06-2019, 05:49 AM
 
Location: *
13,240 posts, read 4,927,027 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
Depends on how many people are sane enough to understand that doing the same things time and again and expecting different results is not sane.
Precisely 'what' have we been doing for the last 3 or more decades?

Quote:
The real choice isn't between government and the "market." It's between a system responsive to the needs of most Americans and one more responsive to the demands of the super-rich, big business and Wall Street -- whose economic and political power have grown dramatically over the last three decades.
Bernie Sanders and the free market

https://www.baltimoresun.com/opinion...006-story.html
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Old 12-06-2019, 09:20 AM
 
Location: Itinerant
8,278 posts, read 6,276,391 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
Precisely 'what' have we been doing for the last 3 or more decades?



Bernie Sanders and the free market

https://www.baltimoresun.com/opinion...006-story.html
Trying to craft in law a series of rules that apply to a system that has almost infinite parameters, and is inherently chaotic, such that it constrains it and reduces risk. However by doing that you must, rationally, provide some form of harm reduction (because there must be a real or perceived benefit), thus permitting harm to befall the uninvolved. You also introduce unintended consequences such that both those using that system, and the rest who are politically connected to the rule makers (and that includes voters) are impacted sometimes positively, sometimes negatively.

Far better to just state, you guys go play over there at your own risk, and don't come crying to us when you put out your eye.
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Old 12-06-2019, 04:28 PM
 
Location: *
13,240 posts, read 4,927,027 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
Trying to craft in law a series of rules that apply to a system that has almost infinite parameters, and is inherently chaotic, such that it constrains it and reduces risk. However by doing that you must, rationally, provide some form of harm reduction (because there must be a real or perceived benefit), thus permitting harm to befall the uninvolved. You also introduce unintended consequences such that both those using that system, and the rest who are politically connected to the rule makers (and that includes voters) are impacted sometimes positively, sometimes negatively.

Far better to just state, you guys go play over there at your own risk, and don't come crying to us when you put out your eye.
Re: bold: that is what the Glass-Steagall Act accomplished:

The Glass-Steagall Act: What It Is and Why It Matters

The Glass-Steagall Act of 1933, which has been partially repealed, prevented commercial banks from making risky investments with customer deposits.

https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/bank...act-explained/

Glass-Steagall repeal

Quote:
In 1999, after decades of lobbying and proposed legislation, some Glass-Steagall provisions were repealed as part of the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act. Institutions could participate in both commercial and investment activities.

But critics of the repeal said it crossed a firewall between commercial and investment banking, and may have led to the Great Recession of 2008. Joseph Stiglitz, winner of a Nobel Prize in economics and a professor at Columbia University, wrote in a 2009 Vanity Fair opinion piece:

“Commercial banks are not supposed to be high-risk ventures; they are supposed to manage other people’s money very conservatively. It is with this understanding that the government agrees to pick up the tab should they fail. Investment banks, on the other hand, have traditionally managed rich people’s money — people who can take bigger risks in order to get bigger returns.”
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Old 12-07-2019, 02:26 AM
 
Location: Itinerant
8,278 posts, read 6,276,391 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
Re: bold: that is what the Glass-Steagall Act accomplished:

The Glass-Steagall Act: What It Is and Why It Matters

The Glass-Steagall Act of 1933, which has been partially repealed, prevented commercial banks from making risky investments with customer deposits.

https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/bank...act-explained/

Glass-Steagall repeal
No it did not accomplish that.

It prevented commercial banks from making investments with customer deposits in high risk ventures.

It wasn't go play over there, but don't come crying.... because it also indemnified customer losses with public funding. It was you must not play over there, because we're covering losses.

To accomplish my statement, there would have needed to be no indemnity, and director liability. Then the directors of Lehmans might have thought, hmm, you know we're on the hook for this $768B we might want to rethink our strategy. Even if they did not, at least the public would not be covering the costs, and, other corps who invested in Lehmans (through trading derivatives) would be more diligent since only Lehmans would be the money pot they could recover their investment from.
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Old 03-20-2020, 01:36 PM
 
1,031 posts, read 639,331 times
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I think it's pretty obvious to see what the free market has accomplished thus far with private prisons and private military contractors

If you like private prisons and private military contractors you're going to love the private police and the private Judiciary that puts you in the private jail
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Old 03-20-2020, 01:41 PM
 
45,227 posts, read 26,450,499 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boer View Post
I think it's pretty obvious to see what the free market has accomplished thus far with private prisons and private military contractors

If you like private prisons and private military contractors you're going to love the private police and the private Judiciary that puts you in the private jail
Cabin fever has set in, time to bash the libertarians lol

Private prisons arent really private and neither are military contractors. Both are approved,funded, regulated by govt (with our stolen money) and operate in protected bubbles free from competition.
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Old 03-20-2020, 01:57 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,434,708 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
Cabin fever has set in, time to bash the libertarians lol

Private prisons arent really private and neither are military contractors. Both are approved,funded, regulated by govt (with our stolen money) and operate in protected bubbles free from competition.
I guess private prisons will be funded in your utopia by getting workers with no leverage to sign a contract which once they end they get locked up.

Or is it trespassing on property or theft that allows a private individuals to decide who gets locked up, maybe in their basement.

Lets face it, this dream has nothing to do with freedom, its about slavery.
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Old 03-20-2020, 02:17 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,853 posts, read 17,368,921 times
Reputation: 14459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
Cabin fever has set in, time to bash the libertarians lol

Private prisons arent really private and neither are military contractors. Both are approved,funded, regulated by govt (with our stolen money) and operate in protected bubbles free from competition.
Indeed.

Private prisons are NOT free market prisons.

https://mises.org/wire/dont-confuse-...market-prisons
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