Quote:
Originally Posted by nedergras
If they didn't nake the F150 so damn big car sales wouldn't be so dismal. Now everyone just wants big flashy emotional like that Chris Bangle crap.
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Thank CAFE and other nonsense regulations.
There is no reason a so called mid sized sedan costs as much as it does, and lack the room that it does.
A crew cab short bed from any of the big three filled the void.
You do have some truth in your assessment.
When Ford and GM got rid of the Lincoln Town car and Cadillac Deville...
Boomers lost their status symbols that rode like baby carraiges.
What filled the void?
Enter the crew cab short bed half-1 ton.
Who bought leather express 60 70 80 90k dollar trucks?
Same who is currently buying Escalades fully loaded expeditions tahoes and yukons.
Baby boomers.
Lariats. King ranches. Platinums. Harley Davidson. Cabelas. All of those crew cab pickups? 50 60 something year olds who MIGHT tow a boat twice in the summer. Who MIGHT hit home depot/lowes on a weekend.
90% of the drivability concerns I dealt with were from baby boomers who NEVER owned a diesel and perceived issues that did not exist.
Some were legitimate though.
Like the 6.0 powerstrokes.
Because boomer Mcgee is concerned about Muh fuel economy. Never ever step on the long skinny pedal on the right.
What happened? Vanes in turbos seized. The Vanes in the VGT turbos were never engaging full travel. That will happen ***** footing around town with 1/4-half throttle at most.
Tear the turbo off. Separate the turbine and compressor housings clean the turbine housings and viola fixed. Reinstall turbo go for a road test. Good as new. Only to come back in a month or 2 with the same complaint...
Then came the howling over the cost of oil changes and fuel filters...
Ford and GMs biggest mistake was getting rid of the full sized sedans.
Lincoln Town cars and Cadillac devilles.
90% of the issues and complaints I dealt with from the well to do, retired crowd, were non issues-buyers remorse, and induced by the drivers habits.
You don't by a 3/4 ton truck... to cruise around town with... and complain about it riding like a buck board, or lumber wagon.
You don't buy something you load Ethel and the bridge gang up to go to the buffet, that was built for and designed for towing hauling and doing work...
When I'm seeing 50 60 somethings in King Ranch crew cab F450 duallys... complaining about stiff suspension... I'm laughing out loud.
And I did too.
You? You bought a 70 80 90k dollar truck. TRUCK. As in. This thing was designed to tow more than 15k pounds safely, daily. With 19.5 TRUCK tires on Alcoa Wheels.
Just what in the hell were you expecting? A baby carraige on air?
Are you simple? Daft? Did you not see the size of the leaf and coil springs in this thing?! It should come as no surprise the suspension has no give! It wasn't designed to "give"! You bought a TRUCK. say it with me. TRRRRUUUCCKKKK. Truck. This particular one was designed to tow a piece of equipment, like a bobcat, on a gooseneck trailer, through construction sites and through mountains.
Fuel economy? It has a 4:88 ring and pinion set out back! Are you serious or trolling me?! This truck is geared so low it literally CAN pull a house off its foundation.
You're complaining about 10mpg?! Are you serious? Did you even drive this thing before you bought it? Or you just couldn't wait for the flannel shirt and stetson hat to come in and just had to have it? If I wanted a smooth ride... I wouldn't be going for a dually rated to tow and haul. If I wanted gas mileage I wouldn't be going for a hefty truck with a hefty chassis.
NPF! (No problem found) Truck is operating as designed. Adjust customer. Not truck.
Then again. That was rural upstate NY and the ones who bought them, weren't farmers that actually pulled cattle or did truck things. Cityiots that migrated with money, trying to "fit in" / "blend in". Posers.
The best were the 6.7 check engine lights. Missing the right side rear view mirror. Urban cowboy blamed his wife for baking it into the garage and ripping the mirror and ambient air temp sensor out.
okay buddy. I see how wide a swing you take to park it... you're not getting away with blaming "the wife" let's be real here... you went from a BMW X series SUV, to a Goliath dually/pickup. You're a non driver. It's okay. You'll learn how to drive a truck. Or not.
Then with the advent of 5 and 6 speed automatic transmissions in half tons... boomers struck again.
See they are morons with modern technology. For the most part, boomers are still under the impression carburetors are still being utilized.
So they drive like they drove their 70s Oldsmobile during the gas rationing era.
This does not contribute to gaining fuel economy...
Today's vehicles actually for the most part, get better fuel economy going wide open throttle until cruising speed is desired. Get to speed quicker, get the torque converter to lock up, and RPMs to be at 1,200-1,700 depending on tire wheel and differential combination, you'll burn less fuel.
How?
I proved it with a scan tool. Pull pics up for mass fuel desired. Make recordings.
Light acceleration with 0-60 obtained in 30 40 50 seconds with say 30 grams of fuel per second.
Vs
0-60 in 5 6 7 seconds at 100 grams of fuel per second followed by cruising with little fuel desired to maintain cruising speed.
The faster you got to cruising speed, followed with barely any throttle to keep it moving, achieved higher MPGS hand calculated, and via scan tool data.
When 5 and 6 speed automatics came out?
Muh transmission is falling out of this thing!
I drove these vehicles and could not duplicate the concern. Why? I drove their trucks the same way I drove mine.
The moment I started driving like a boomer taking my sweet time to get up to speed, trying to keep the vehicle in overdrive climbing a hill?
Yup. Bucking/jerking/shuddering/hunting for gears.
Boomers are used to 3 and 4 speed slush box transmissions.
They HATE feeling shifts. Why? I don't know. Then again. I know how an automatic transmission functions.
Manufacturers had way too many things going on at once.
1. Trying to achieve higher MPGs.
2. Trying to reduce emissions.
3. Increase horsepower and torque.
4. Appease their base-baby boomers, with soft seamless shifts.
This all came at a cost in the form of premature failure.
How? Why?
Easy.
Because boomers can't stand feeling up shifts, the manufacturers went from ON OFF duty cycle of solenoids in valve bodies. To variable duty cycling coupled with lowering line pressure.
Thus. You see torque converter failure, clutch and band failure, even catastrophic component failure. Like pumps, bearings, and planetary gear sets.
How Though?
Less holding force+massaging components opposed to engaging them = higher temperatures and premature wear.
GM is currently dealing with it in their 8 speed truck transmissions.
Ford had it with the 6R80 in the F150.
Software update first.
Then if it still happens. Inspect components. Replace as necessary. God forbid someone felt an upshift. That was out of the question.
What caused the failures is a combination of trying to do too many things at once, with driving Miss Daisy driving habits.
Thus, we can not have nice things that last.
If everyone drove like they stole it... I promise an automatic transmission coupled with fluid and filter changes every 35-50k a modern transmission from Ford GM etc would last 200 300k miles before needing a rebuild/overhaul.
When I would get police cruisers-crown vics, I would rebuild them tighter than factory specs called for on clutch gaps and modified valve bodies for getting more line pressure. If you're a NY state trooper and you're reading this, if your patrol car shifts like a 1/4 mile bracket car and goes like a raped ape compared to the other remaining crown vics in the fleet? You're welcome
You're not hurting that transmission.
GMs problem seems to be inadequate converter clutch size, coupled with boomer appeasing programming, and cafe appeasing adaptive strategy.
Low engine load, lock up the converter, shift to 8th. Not enough holding force, due to clutch size and line pressure. Viola. Failed transmissions and torque converters at 20 30k miles.
My 14 Silverado I drive it like I stole it. It only knows wide open throttle to cruising speed and lifting to keep enough throttle to maintain cruising speed.
My 3/4 duramax isn't an issue. Alison transmissions in Stock form are fine. Bullet proof.
I didn't have any transmission failure. Any transmission issues.
I took that truck with 2.5 miles on the odometer, for a 5 mile road test, and bought it that night.
Transmission is issue free. Go to Silverado related forums... You'd swear every 14 and 15 half ton with a 5.3 came with a defective transmission from the factory.
Hunting for gears, slip shifts, catastrophic failure at low miles.
Not mine.
Going wide open throttle circumvents boomer/cafe transmission strategy.
Plus I get to 4 cylinder mode quicker. Higher fuel economy. That's another complaint. Muh fuel economy! Chevrolet lied!
I don't know... I averaged in the mountains of upstate NY 25.8 mpg with a crew cab short bed LTZ Z71. If someone claimed the best they got was 16 or 17mpg how?
Stop and go traffic? Dead foot acceleration? All uphill all the time?
After moving to flat smooth Florida with the factory tuning still in the truck, it averaged 28.4 on the highway driving up and down 95. Get into local traffic with stop and go, stop and go, with everyone gently accelerating from green lights going 0-40 at the speed that stink lingers... driving like old people screw... it plummeted to 15 at best, rarely ever going into 4 cylinder mode...
That was when it still had factory programming though.
Now?
Race Truck. E85 I'm keeping up with brand new SS camaros.
So... regulations price and logic dictates to the market, what is the sense in dropping 40k on a car...
When... for the same price I can have a pickup truck. Have the ability to tow a boat a camper jet skis etc. Have the ability to bring lumber home for projects and repairs around the house.
Why buy a 4 pot turbo or v6 car that will only go from A to B when I can have something versatile and get just as good fuel economy with more cabin space?
Does the average person need a pickup truck for a daily driver? Maybe. Maybe not.
I find it funny when folks go to lowes or home depot and try to be mcguyver with plywood and 2x4s with econoboxes and Itty bitty suvs/crossovers. Nobody wants a pickup truck until it's time to do pickup truck things...
Thus. You have a decline in car sales. Save for sports cars/muscle cars.
Add in throw away mentality that cars are appliances. The general populace is as about as knowledgeable about vehicles as they are about anything mechanical/technological.
Naive at best. Is that insulting? No not really. Who here really cares how a system/subsystem works? Nobody. They just want to hop in, push a button, and go. For as cheaply as possible. If it breaks. Fix it or trade it in. Ain't nobody got time for that-To learn how something works and improve it.
That's for us gear heads, grease monkeys, performance enthusiast's, and hot rodders. We are a niche market at best though. At least we know how to solve manufacturer/engineering short comings. Ours will still be running. Yours, the general populace, will be long traded in or scrapped.
Those regulations ya'll love so much? There's your arbitrary expenses being passed down to the consumer via crap quality, low longevity, insane expense.
The cost of cars today, when adjusted for inflation is not even close to what it was in the early 00s let alone 60s 70s 80s 90s. Not even close. Gross markup clean across the board and for what? Something that's junk before the warranty is even up? Something that will cost so much to fix you're better off going upside down in trade and signing another 60-84 month loan tagging the balance owed on that run down worn out clunker for more of the same if not worse?
Stop calling upon .gov to meddle where it shouldnt. It will only get more expensive and worse. Not because Muh Ford Muh Mopar Muh GM.
It will affect Toyota, Nissan, Kia etc.
Electric? Electric will be viable once they figure out batteries.
Energy density, there's more energy in a pound of diesel fuel or gasoline than that tesla battery.
Until that day comes, the internal combustion engine reigns supreme.
Save for all the emissions nonsense that kills reliability/longevity.
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