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Sorry about your friend. Clearly there is a public utility aspect here, to the point where it is a viable baby it not YOUR business anymore than what you do to our kids in your home, yeah your business . but there are limits. I am not saying that anyone should be forced to die, but taking these absolutist stances certainly dont help the issue.
The difference is when you are involved in the welfare of a child in a child abuse aspect you are not telling another human being what to do with their body or their medical choices. The only way it would be equivalent is if someone's child is dying of something like say organ failure and you wanted to be allowed to force their parents to donate organs to them. Do you think people who are matches to those on the organ registry list should be compelled to risk their health and welfare in order to save those lives? If not why not?
See, I don't get that argument. I know it appeals to women but what about the dad? Why doesn't the dad get any rights at all?
Because until a child is born there is no dad. And no adult gets to make medical decisions for another competent adult. Suppose you are a match to a relative of your husband, can your husband force you to donate a kidney, bone marrow, whatever to his relative? If not why not?
I go with the the point of viability. As it stands I believe the consensus is 24 weeks but the fetus has a small chance of survival at that stage. It might be best to up it to 25 or 26 weeks. I also agree with the exceptions for a non viable fetus due to medical conditions and the health/life of the mother.
You know what? If the SCOTUS ruled 'point of viability', I would just simply accept it and go about my business.
For that matter, if the SCOTUS overturned Roe vs Wade, ruled point of viability, or ruled 'heart beat', and then tossed the whole thing into the laps of the states, that would be fine.
I even like California, who has no residency requirement. It's their state.
What I don't like are the states, mostly in the South, who make attempts to, in fact, make abortion illegal through harsh requirements on the medical community - requirements that can never be met. So my state, Mississippi, would probably just ban abortions except in the rare, legal instances. And that would be the end of that.
So for me, I would like to see definitions coming from SCOTUS, or I would like to see Roe vs Wade reversed.
As I said, 'heart beat' is my preference. That put a burden on prospective parents to play heads up ball and get interested in the problem they might cause themselves.
The really good news is that teen birth rates, and pregnancy rates are falling across the board. That means a lot of teenagers will not be forced to deal with the problem.
Because until a child is born there is no dad. And no adult gets to make medical decisions for another competent adult. Suppose you are a match to a relative of your husband, can your husband force you to donate a kidney, bone marrow, whatever to his relative? If not why not?
Having an abortion isn't like refusing to donate a kidney. It's more like putting a gun to the head of the person with kidney failure and pulling the trigger.
Having an abortion isn't like refusing to donate a kidney. It's more like putting a gun to the head of the person with kidney failure and pulling the trigger.
Women risk their health and even their life if they continue a pregnancy. Forcing a woman to risk her life and health is exactly the same thing as forcing a person to risk their life and health by demanding they donate organs to another person. Well except that in the case of forced organ donation it is to save the life of an actual person, and in the case of a fetus it is forcing a woman to risk her life and health for a potential person.
Has the Democrat position on abortion influenced you?
It has for me. I had no real position on abortion. Male, senior, Republican - I simply had no real feeling one way or the other. I did feel, however, that the GOP had dug themselves in too deeply on the issue, but it didn't influence my vote.
It was the Democrats who convinced me. They seem to feel that any abortion for any reason is OK, and if some state tries to limit their access, they protest. Abortion of a child who has been carried for 6 months seems unjustifiable to me. And given the amount and availability of birth control devices, it seems like the whole issue needs to be revisited by The Supreme Court.
I back the heartbeat bills. I was not convinced so much by the logic behind the bills, as I was by the Democrat hysterical opposition and what I see as nonsensical arguments against that type of bill.
It looks to me like the Republicans finally have a defensible position on abortion.
The Democrats have over played their hand, just like the Republicans did back when we impeached Bill Clinton. I think they will lose this one.
I'm sorry, but it seems that you have it backwards. It's Republicans who are trying for extreme measures - to ban abortions entirely.
Please don't make it sound as though late-term abortions are something that anyone in their right mind wants. I can't help wondering whether you're male, and how you'd feel if the Supreme Court told you what you could and couldn't do with your own body.
Has the Democrat position on abortion influenced you?
It has for me. I had no real position on abortion. Male, senior, Republican - I simply had no real feeling one way or the other. I did feel, however, that the GOP had dug themselves in too deeply on the issue, but it didn't influence my vote.
It was the Democrats who convinced me. They seem to feel that any abortion for any reason is OK, and if some state tries to limit their access, they protest. Abortion of a child who has been carried for 6 months seems unjustifiable to me. And given the amount and availability of birth control devices, it seems like the whole issue needs to be revisited by The Supreme Court.
I back the heartbeat bills. I was not convinced so much by the logic behind the bills, as I was by the Democrat hysterical opposition and what I see as nonsensical arguments against that type of bill.
It looks to me like the Republicans finally have a defensible position on abortion. The Democrats have over played their hand, just like the Republicans did back when we impeached Bill Clinton. I think they will lose this one.
I've posted several times in the past exactly why I support a "woman's right to choose", even though I could have never done such a thing myself. The Leftists have gone around the bend, they never know when to stop with their Leftist Ideology. I strongly disagree with those Conservatives that believe they have a Right to Legislate what happens in a bedroom ... (1) a woman who becomes pregnant and is certain she does not want to carry the child OR 2 males/2 females that love each other and Government decides to make that "criminal". It's just WRONG.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cantabridgienne
No. I've always believed women should make their own medical decisions.
I had a close relative (college student, age 19) who had to go to Mexico for an Abortion in 1970 - for those who don't know, women could not get birth control pills in 1970 unless they were married. She came back from her abortion and almost died - horrible infection. She lived - BUT was never able to have children after that Mexican Abortion .... it ruined her life. A safe Abortion would have changed her entire life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldoKitty
I am a pro-choice person. Let the woman decide what is to happen during the earlier part of the pregnancy. It's been like that for decades.
But I do indeed find it disturbing that democrats have now voted to allow abortions right up to birth.
It's more than "disturbing" ..... it's nuts and it's also strongly against any polling of what reasonable middle America thinks. Not only "right up to birth", but even after birth if a woman suddenly decides she doesn't want that Live Baby.
It's a step too far ..... a GIANT step too far. IF a pregnant woman is murdered, the Murder charge is 2 Counts - 1 for the women, 1 for her unborn child .... and yet, the woman & her doctor can decide to allow a newborn or child in a botched late term abortion to DIE and it's Hunky-Dory.
I've posted several times in the past exactly why I support a "woman's right to choose", even though I could have never done such a thing myself. The Leftists have gone around the bend, they never know when to stop with their Leftist Ideology. I strongly disagree with those Conservatives that believe they have a Right to Legislate what happens in a bedroom ... (1) a woman who becomes pregnant and is certain she does not want to carry the child OR 2 males/2 females that love each other and Government decides to make that "criminal". It's just WRONG.
I had a close relative (college student, age 19) who had to go to Mexico for an Abortion in 1970 - for those who don't know, women could not get birth control pills in 1970 unless they were married. She came back from her abortion and almost died - horrible infection. She lived - BUT was never able to have children after that Mexican Abortion .... it ruined her life. A safe Abortion would have changed her entire life.
It's more than "disturbing" ..... it's nuts and it's also strongly against any polling of what reasonable middle America thinks. Not only "right up to birth", but even after birth if a woman suddenly decides she doesn't want that Live Baby.
It's a step too far ..... a GIANT step too far. IF a pregnant woman is murdered, the Murder charge is 2 Counts - 1 for the women, 1 for her unborn child .... and yet, the woman & her doctor can decide to allow a newborn or child in a botched late term abortion to DIE and it's Hunky-Dory.
None of that makes any sense to a Normal Person.
There is no such thing as 'abortion after birth' or 'abortion on the delivery table'.
Zip. Zero. Zilch. Made up bullchit.
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