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Your question isn't really clear in either of your posts.
are you asserting in your original post that people who consider abortion to be murder of a human are anti-semites because the majority of jews in America politically support the right to abortion?
If so, I would say emphatically no and the assertion is, frankly, crazy. nothing to debate here.
According to recent stats:
"American Jews (83%) support abortion rights".
This is effectively the HIGHEST support among any group, religion, subgroup, race, ethnicity or age group.....that is, it is off the charts compared to even the country as a whole (57%).
The only group of any size up there with Jews are Aethists/Agnostics (87%) and Buddhists (82%).
It appears to me that the very same right wing folks that constantly bring up Anti-Semitism here on C-D and elsewhere.....are at the complete opposite of the spectrum on this issue - yet it is one that most of them claim is the SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT issue and true difference between "sides" or "groups".
So how do these folks explain their forgiveness of this support? I don't want to think it's all about the Rapture because I like to think the most people use some reason and logic in forming their "for" and "against" political stances.
But, put another way, there is no single larger enemy to the Pro-Life movement than Buddhists, Jews and Agnostics/Aethists.....who, BTW, are often one and the same (there is overlap, sometimes to a large degree).
Is this able to be explained in a way that makes sense? Or is the whole "Right defends the Jews" meme just opposite world (as it appears to be to me...since most Jews are left and vote Dem).....?????
I'm open to a reasoned response...usually don't get any. But give it a try.
This is the big problem with intersectionality. Certain groups over lap others and still oppress other groups of people while at it.
First off, I want to say I'm pro-choice up to a limit within the first 3 months. I live here in NYC, 2 miles away from me is the Upper west Side Manhattan. Upper West Side of Manhattan is known for its affluent, progressive, liberal NYT reading Jewish folks. How many of such Jews will have abortions? Almost 0. A few blocks north is Harlem which is historically African American. Large swaths of Africans Americans who live in the projects grow up with conservative Baptist culture from the South. How many of those Baptist conservative folks who vote democrat will have abortions that come from NYCHA projects? A lot. And no, I'm not being bigoted, because I'm very familiar with both groups of people and I love them.
Also the Pro-life movement is also supported by the Catholic Clergy, as well as conservative Protestant faiths like the Baptist Church which can be either black, white or both. But yeah certain positions overlap. Jews might be pro-choice which is good for the left, but are pro Israel which is bad for the Left, but good for the Right who is pro Israel. Black Americans are pro civil rights which is good for the Left, and the right to a certain degree, but are anti-immigrant historically. Muslims are an oppressed and protected group by the Left, however Muslims historically are anti LGBTQ. This is where Social Justice as a religion comes in to bring groups together, however it still fails.
So what?
USSR and UK, a totally different regimes, were on the same side in WW2 and helped each other.
USSR and UK helped each other due to convenience. Hitler did not want to fight the UK due to its global Sea Power, however did not like Capitalism due to its conspiracy of Jewish control. On the other hand Hitler did not like the USSR due to its being Communist and again the conspiracy of Jewish bolshevism which is false. In matter a fact, Stalin 1st purges targeted mainly Jews from high ranking Soviet positions and replaced them with ethnic Russians. On the flip side the Soviet Union did not like the Capitalist west, UK and its Empire and the U.S. and the UK and U.S did not like Communist economic system either. On the other hand, Nazis and Soviets aligned to take on the West, but that fell apart. And the West aligned with the Soviets to take on National Socialist regime of Nazi Germany. It is interesting how alliances change within WW2.
Liberals want to boycott Georgia over abortion and North Carolina over men in women's bathrooms. Israel allows gay marriage. Gay marriage is illegal in "Palestine". Libearls want to boycott Israel.
One of the things I have noticed is that the left wants to protect and defend Muslims, but in different Sunni Islamic philosophies some might be open to homosexuality as a right, but many do not. When I look at Social Justice media. Social Justice media tends to highlight the Islamic Golden Age as an achievement in Islam which allowed rights and opportunity for women, and homosexuality. Sadly all of such came to an end with the Mongol sacking of Baghdad in the mid 13th century.
Your question isn't really clear in either of your posts.
.
No, my question is why the vast majority of the "point fingers at anti-semites" threads and posts here seem to be written by the very same people who tell us pro-choice and liberal people are...well, hardly worthy of being called human.
I must not explaining myself correctly. It's not, in general, the liberals Jews (like myself) who would EVER post a thread here about anti-semitism. It's the same screen names that post other right and far-right stuff. The exact opposite of what you would expect, given their stated views.
The only ways I can square the circle are....
1. They don't know what they are saying - just repeating stuff from the Echo Chamber.
2. They are pro-war and pro-violence (along with pro-rapture) and therefore the idea of the whole chaos in the middle east is something they identify with.....themselves and jews. Therefore, they are brethren in this (except they don't know that even most Jews and Israelis aren't into such violence...and definitely not into the rapture).
or
3. The exact opposite of the stated views is the truth - that is, they don't feel much different about Jews than the former generations (In the South and heavily Red areas) did. But they are tying to someone align politically so they appear more tolerant than they are.
It's surely possible that it's some of all of them. But it would be hard for me to imagine if you asked these particular member "What percentage of Jewish folks are pro-choice?" that they would have guessed how heavily weighted it is. Just as they don't seem to realize 77% or so of Jewish folks vote against the GOP.
Maybe my looking for a simple answer is the problem here. If they don't know the facts, then their posting isn't going to make sense to me (or politically).
Putting it directly into votes - every push those right-wing people make in these states with laws against family planning and women/family/doctors choices as per the Constitution and Law.....is losing them votes with the Jewish population....both in those states and elsewhere.
Just as every one of the right wing posts here about the black vote does the same thing. It reaffirms that it's not just as small political disagreement, but that they seem to have disdain for vast millions of people. They find excuses for why to do so...
Liberals....are bad because they are socialist, communists and don't like Hate Speech. Liberals are tolerant....when it comes to drug laws, privacy and reproductive rights, etc.
Blacks....are bad because they crave a piece of the American Pie and want to vote, drive and pull weeds without having cops and others pulling guns on them.
Jews?....Well, it seems more complicated. I'd say - as I mentioned before - that Jews=Liberals=Pro-Choice. Therefore, you wouldn't think so many "yay Jews and bad bad people who crtitque them" threads and post would be made by the very same people who dump constantly on Liberals and Blacks and everyone else.
Also the Pro-life movement is also supported by the Catholic Clergy, as well as conservative Protestant faiths like the Baptist Church which can be either black, white or both. But yeah certain positions overlap. Jews might be pro-choice which is good for the left, but are pro Israel which is bad for the Left, but good for the Right who is pro Israel. Black Americans are pro civil rights which is good for the Left, and the right to a certain degree, but are anti-immigrant historically. Muslims are an oppressed and protected group by the Left, however Muslims historically are anti LGBTQ. This is where Social Justice as a religion comes in to bring groups together, however it still fails.
Well, sure, positions overlap......
But, in terms of most really major positions........
1. Nationalist - Jews in the USA would much more tend to be Globalists.
2. Health Care - Jews in the USA would more support Universal health care.
3. Education - Jews would tend to support free preschool and such things....
4. Pro-Choice - BIG percentage
5. The Gay thing and related tolerance - No contest - Jews would be the opposite of the Far Right.
6. Religion in Government - Jews would be totally against what is being done as we speak....using "God's Laws" instead of Secular liberal values.
7. Taxes - Jews believe in paying for what you use. Israel is Socialist and was actually communal and/or communist in many ways when founded (communes).
This leaves us really only one big issue of what you mentioned.
Israel......
So, for your view to make sense....we'd first have to say that the Right cares much less about the combined 7 things above than about some sort of "support" (what the heck does that mean?) for a small foreign country. That doesn't computer by itself.
Then we'd have to think that it must be 90% or more of American Jews that "support Israel" in this fashion for it to truly be a valid counterweight.
We KNOW American Jews don't support Trump or Kushner, etc.......so obviously they don't perceive those people as representing their views...on Israel or anything else!
"Democrats appeared to increase their electoral advantage among Americans Jews in the 2018 midterm elections. According to the exit polls, Democrats won 82 percent of the two-party Jewish vote for the House of Representatives in 2018"
Of American Jews:
"Only 30 percent said they were very attached to Israel in a 2013 Pew Survey"
"89 percent said that you can be both Jewish and strongly critical of Israel"
Bronx, based on the above, the facts simply do not show American Jews tied into the American Right on Jewish questions...to ANY degree that would make them allies.
Frankly, some of these numbers surprise even me. But there you go - facts are facts.
This puts another could ???? on my question....or, it just means that #1 above (The right is ignorant about what Jews in the USA actually think and do)....as the most logical answer.
In general, data tends to line up.....at some point. But this doesn't. There is absolutely no number which shows why the Right posts thread after thread and story after story about Jewish folks.....as if THEY are the ones protecting Jews here or elsewhere (and said Jews are scratching their heads thinking "I have zero in common with these people". )
the same screen names that post other right and far-right stuff.
1. …... don't know what they are saying.....
2. …. are pro-war and pro-violence (along with pro-rapture)....
3..... don't feel much different about Jews than the former generations (In the South and heavily Red areas) did.
….every push those right-wing people make.... against family planning and women/family/doctors is losing them votes with the Jewish population.....
…..every one of the right wing posts here about the black vote does the same thing....
….."yay Jews and bad bad people who crtitque them" threads [are] made by the very same people who dump constantly on Liberals and Blacks and everyone else.
excuse me, please, for editing your post. I did it to distill the words in your post to see if I could understand where you were going with your thread topic.
you have posted no question. You seem to be unhappy with "right and far-right stuff" posted on CD and don't like certain posters' views. I don't like some of them either, but there is an ignore button. if they are so distasteful you don't want to read them, put the posters on ignore.
some come here to insult, fight, flame. some come to hear other opinions and/or debate with people they would never have contact with in real life. the former types of posts are never interesting to me.
Last edited by texan2yankee; 05-31-2019 at 01:56 PM..
Why is it that many American Jews are so liberal, other than the view they strayed from their relationship with God for so long?
Well, at least we have gotten somewhere. Jews, whether here or abroad, are largely secular....modernist...humanist.....tolerant....pr ogressive, etc.
Those things = Liberal.
Which is exactly what I am getting at. It's weird that Right Wingers are parroting stories here on CD and posting so many threads "caring" about Liberals.
I guess that is the disconnect I am talking about. If they were consistent the Right wouldn't be caring so much about a largely liberal-learning group, especially on the reproductive rights issue! Yet they do.....
As to the relationship with sky and ether-dwelling beings, spirits or forces.....Jews are largely secular. This means they don't believe in such...as a rule. Make of that which you want.
The world, as a whole, is becoming MUCH less religious. Jews lead the pack in that sense, with only 38% worldwide (and less in the USA) considering themselves such).
But that would seem like fodder for another thread...or else it just proves my point! Why does the right seem so transfixed on posting about protecting this particular group.
I'm not suggesting the Right should be down on them to mean to them. Just that there is almost nowhere that the politics overlap.
Of course, more religious Jewish sects tend to be more right wing...this is pretty much true of most Fundamentalist leaning sects of all religions.
According to recent stats:
"American Jews (83%) support abortion rights".
This is effectively the HIGHEST support among any group, religion, subgroup, race, ethnicity or age group.....that is, it is off the charts compared to even the country as a whole (57%).
The only group of any size up there with Jews are Aethists/Agnostics (87%) and Buddhists (82%).
It appears to me that the very same right wing folks that constantly bring up Anti-Semitism here on C-D and elsewhere.....are at the complete opposite of the spectrum on this issue - yet it is one that most of them claim is the SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT issue and true difference between "sides" or "groups".
So how do these folks explain their forgiveness of this support? I don't want to think it's all about the Rapture because I like to think the most people use some reason and logic in forming their "for" and "against" political stances.
But, put another way, there is no single larger enemy to the Pro-Life movement than Buddhists, Jews and Agnostics/Aethists.....who, BTW, are often one and the same (there is overlap, sometimes to a large degree).
Is this able to be explained in a way that makes sense? Or is the whole "Right defends the Jews" meme just opposite world (as it appears to be to me...since most Jews are left and vote Dem).....?????
I'm open to a reasoned response...usually don't get any. But give it a try.
Are you sitting there, actually implying that if someone is against abortion it means they are "anti-Semites"?
You think that's going to work? You all thought, "Well, the 'racist' thing seems to be working on them, they are scared to say anything lest they be labeled racist, so now let's tell them that they're anti-Semite if they are against abortion."
Not going to work. That wasn't even a nice try.
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