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I wouldn't discount the comment about the 70% out-of-wedlock birthrate. I'm glad you and your parents have been responsible, but when nearly three out of four black babies are born out of wedlock, it WILL show up in higher poverty rates, lower educational attainment, and higher crime rates. While it's a valid discussion as to what the government can do to help, it's important to realize it's a two-way street and there's much that blacks, generally speaking, can they themselves do to improve their lives for which others have no control.
He should not count on it either. The rate is 30% for whites. In the 60's, the rate was about 5% for whites and already at 27% for blacks. In the 60's the rate was over 5 times that of whites. The black poverty rate in the 60's was about 3 times the rate of whites. Today the black out of wedlock rate is not 5 times the rate of whites as it was in the 60's. It's now only a little over twice the rate of whites, yet, the black poverty rate is still 3 times that of whites. Ergo, the discrepancy between the white rate and the black rate of out of wedlock births have actually decreased since the 60's.....yet the black poverty rate still remains 3 times that of whites.
How is it that white out of wedlock births (which no one likes to talk about or bring up) has increased 600% since the 60's.....and there not be a rise in white poverty rates, white crime rates, unemployment, etc? If the theory is that out of wedlock births and single parent households increase rates of poverty, then how is it that white out of wedlock births can increase 600%....while white poverty rates don't go up....but actually decrease during that same time frame? I call BS. I call deflection.
Its not that I am arguing that out of wedlock births are not a problem. What I am arguing is that higher out of wedlock birth rates in the black community are a SYMPTOM of other societal causes, like the accrued impact of centuries of racial discrimination. Furthermore, even if you marry off every black man and women and marry off every white man and women, the gaps in income and poverty between black and white households would still exists because of the condition of INDIVIDUALS. If per capita income for blacks is 20K and 36K for whites, the typical white married couple would have a household income of 62K compared to 40K for blacks. If twice as many black individuals are unemployed than white individuals are, there will be a lot more black couples were one is not bringing in an income, even though they are married. If black individual wealth is 15 times less than whites, two black individuals joined in marriage will still have 15 times less wealth than typical white individuals joined in marriage. Hence, the issue is not marriage.......it's the plight of black individuals in this nation relative to the plight of white individuals in this nation. Talk about marriage rates is a DEFLECTION and OBFUSCATION of this truth.
I never said he addressed me personally. I said that I took it personal. I took it personal because I've done what I could do. And I still have to worry about being looked down on. And what angered me is that said person was just saying that out of his own resentment towards Blacks. And I think some of the pushback is wondering if this is true concern or some people just venting their frustration at Blacks. Given the way race relations have always been, there is still alot of distrust and tension.
Out of wedlock births aren't a good way to start life out. I think what you're referring to is teenage pregnancy. That really will cause alot of problems. And that will hurt anyone regardless of race.
Getting into college for free, that helps alot, and it helps if you don't have kids. And this will definitely augment one's education. The hardest part is after: Getting a job. I graduated from college and had a hard time getting a job at first. That is something to consider as well.
I graduated from college in 1981, with unemployment at 11%. I spent the first 9 months running a Xerox machine, part-time. Best I could do. Pretty bad for someone who graduated Phi Beta Kappa, top of her class and ready to take on the world. Talk about a come-down! (Can we spell....DEPRESSED?)
You said you're 33, which means you graduated around 11 years ago - 2008. That was a really bad year as the recession hit. I don't know that you could blame that on color. Everyone was having a hard time finding work.
(And I see we agree on some important points: how teenage pregnancy causes a lot of programs, and that getting a free community college education helps tremendously. )
What do you mean there is no memory of what America was like for the poor before great society programs? My parents remember full well going to bed after having a chicken wing and watered down soup for dinner, doubling up on the blankets during cold NYC winters because the landlord didn't run the heat overnight, and walking 6 blocks to the iceman to save one penny (one penny!) on delivery. My dad didn't own an article of new clothes until he was 13 (his Bar Mitzvah suit) and my mom said she went through high school with the same two skirts.
Plenty of people alive today remember what it was like to be poor.
Those people who remember are not the ones complaining about "liberalism".
He should not count on it either. The rate is 30% for whites. In the 60's, the rate was about 5% for whites and already at 27% for blacks. In the 60's the rate was over 5 times that of whites. The black poverty rate in the 60's was about 3 times the rate of whites. Today the black rate is not 5 times the rate of whites as it was in the 60's. It's now only a little over twice the rate of whites, yet, the black poverty rate is still 3 times that of whites. Ergo, the discrepancy between the white rate and the black rate of out of wedlock births have actually decreased since the 60's.....yet the black poverty rate still remains 3 times that of whites.
How is it that white out of wedlock births (which no one likes to talk about or bring up) has increased 600% since the 60's.....and there not be a rise in white poverty rates, white crime rates, unemployment, etc? If the theory is that out of wedlock births and single parent households increase rates of poverty, then how is it that white out of wedlock births can increase 600%....while white poverty rates don't go up....but actually decrease during that same time frame? I call BS. I call deflection.
Its not that I am arguing that out of wedlock births are not a problem. What I am arguing is that higher out of wedlock birth rates in the black community are a SYMPTOM of other societal causes, like the accrued impact of centuries of racial discrimination. Furthermore, even if you marry off every black man and women and marry off every white man and women, the gaps in income and poverty between black and white households would still exists because of the condition of INDIVIDUALS. If per capita income for blacks is 20K and 36K for whites, the typical white married couple would have a household income of 62K compared to 40K for blacks. If twice as many black individuals are unemployed than white individuals are, there will be a lot more black couples were one is not bringing in an income, even though they are married. If black individual wealth is 15 times less than whites, two black individuals joined in marriage will still have 15 times less wealth than typical white individuals joined in marriage. Hence, the issue is not marriage.......it's the plight of black individuals in this nation relative to the plight of white individuals in this nation. Talk about marriage rates is a DEFLECTION and OBFUSCATION of this truth.
OK, so you're arguing that the high OOW birthrates are a symptom. Got it.
The problem is that you keep insisting that you have to get to the root causes of this undesirable behavior. I'm saying: just focus on correcting that behavior. It's what psychologists do, as they realize the "old-school" shrinks who insist on going back through childhood to uncover the causes actually can cause MORE problems.
And don't worry about this TRUTH that you're talking about. Lower the OOW birthrate to at least 50/50. Right there you'd see lots of improvements - better educational attainment, less poverty, lower crime rates. Then THAT feeds into itself, and the OOW rate can drop even more 40/60. When the majority of black babies are born within marriage, half of all problems among blacks would disappear.
What about incentivizing kids from poor homes NOT to have babies before marriage? They already get free community college, so what if we reward girls who reach age 19 without having a baby with $500 a month? That is cheaper than the cost of food stamps, Medicaid, etc., for babies - and it would give the poor girl a chance at a future. These girls can then continue to live with their mothers, attend CC, and give $500 to Mama towards food and rent. How's THAT for a plan?
Last edited by Rachel976; 06-04-2019 at 07:29 AM..
What do you mean there is no memory of what America was like for the poor before great society programs? My parents remember full well going to bed after having a chicken wing and watered down soup for dinner, doubling up on the blankets during cold NYC winters because the landlord didn't run the heat overnight, and walking 6 blocks to the iceman to save one penny (one penny!) on delivery. My dad didn't own an article of new clothes until he was 13 (his Bar Mitzvah suit) and my mom said she went through high school with the same two skirts.
Plenty of people alive today remember what it was like to be poor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant
Those people who remember are not the ones complaining about "liberalism".
How do you know THAT? Both my parents are appalled at what liberals have become today - with demands for "free this" and "free that". They are still in support of programs that provide free or highly subsidized career training for those in need (they're big believers in "teach a man to fish"), but they will be the first to tell you that liberals today have a big entitlement problem.
OK, so you're arguing that the high OOW birthrates are a symptom. Got it.
The problem is that you keep insisting that you have to get to the root causes of this undesirable behavior. I'm saying: just focus on correcting that behavior. It's what psychologists do, as they realize the "old-school" shrinks who insist on going back through childhood to uncover the causes actually can cause MORE problems.
And don't worry about this TRUTH that you're talking about. Lower the OOW birthrate to at least 50/50. Right there you'd still lots of improvements - better educational attainment, less poverty, lower crime rates. Then THAT feeds into itself, and the OOW rate can drop even more 40/60. When the majority of black babies are born within marriage, half of all problems among blacks would disappear.
What about incentivizing kids from poor homes NOT to have babies before marriage? They already get free community college, so what if we reward girls who reach age 19 without having a baby with $500 a month? That is cheaper than the cost of food stamps, Medicaid, etc., for babies - and it would give the poor girl a chance at a future. These girls can then continue to live with their mothers, attend CC, and give $500 to Mama towards food and rent. How's THAT for a plan?
But all YOU are doing is TALKING ABOUT THE RATE!!!! Talking about the rate and bringing it up helps reduce the rate how? What is your plan? Put up billboards that read "Just say....I DO". How do you propose getting more people to marry and stay married....particularly BLACK PEOPLE, since you like to highlight the black rate of single parent homes? Rhetoric, you should know, is not going to change it. Would you accept the government giving tax breaks or cash payments to black couples for getting and staying married? How else would you incentivize marriage...instead of just talking about the high rate with blacks.
Teen pregnancies have gone down tremendously over the last 40 years.
How do you know THAT? Both my parents are appalled at what liberals have become today - with demands for "free this" and "free that". They are still in support of programs that provide free or highly subsidized career training for those in need (they're big believers in "teach a man to fish"), but they will be the first to tell you that liberals today have a big entitlement problem.
I don't know that....I just assumed people are not hypocrites.
But all YOU are doing is TALKING ABOUT THE RATE!!!! Talking about the rate and bringing it up helps reduce the rate how? What is your plan? Put up billboards that read "Just say....I DO". How do you propose getting more people to marry and stay married....particularly BLACK PEOPLE, since you like to highlight the black rate of single parent homes? Rhetoric, you should know, is not going to change it. Would you accept the government giving tax breaks or cash payments to black couples for getting and staying married? How else would you incentivize marriage...instead of just talking about the high rate with blacks.
Teen pregnancies have gone down tremendously over the last 40 years.
I just told you about my proposal: reward girls who don't have babies with a financial incentive. You're so resentful and quick to attack that you didn't even see that I had a specific proposal.
And also....stigmatize out-of-wedlock births! (But that has to come from the black community; whites would just be resented, as you have just proven.)
How do you know THAT? Both my parents are appalled at what liberals have become today - with demands for "free this" and "free that". They are still in support of programs that provide free or highly subsidized career training for those in need (they're big believers in "teach a man to fish"), but they will be the first to tell you that liberals today have a big entitlement problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant
I don't know that....I just assumed people are not hypocrites.
How are they hypocrites? I just said they were in favor of free and subsidized education. But that doesn't mean they approve the new liberal way of going overboard with free this and free that everywhere you turn. They're smart enough to know that SOMEONE has to pay for free stuff, and there needs to be reasonable limits.
Honestly, you are so full of resentment that you don't even read what people are writing. You just call people's parents hypocrites because they don't agree with your 100% leftist agenda.
I just told you about my proposal: reward girls who don't have babies with a financial incentive. You're so resentful and quick to attack that you didn't even see that I had a specific proposal.
And also....stigmatize out-of-wedlock births! (But that has to come from the black community; whites would just be resented, as you have just proven.)
I don't resent whites, I resent ignorance. You don't even understand the nature of the problem....and your planned solution reflects that. The problem is not rooted in the choices of teenage girls. Your whole spill is to deflect from the role that white racism has played in shaping black dysfunction. Such people love to talk about black out of wedlock births to deflect from the impact of racism and try to make it seem like blacks just make poor choices relative to other groups.
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