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Old 06-07-2019, 05:50 PM
 
13,161 posts, read 21,703,998 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
You know what I find to be a very interesting experiment? Go find someone you know, who will let you do this, who is on the absolute opposite side from whatever you believe. If you are a Liberal, go find a Conservative, if you are a Conservative, go find a Liberal. Nicely ask if you could, without making any comments, and under their supervision, simply scroll down their Facebook for like 3 minutes, and read any news shares that seem interesting to you. No speaking, just reading.

I have done this, and it was astonishing. And she and I both thought we were getting at least mostly true information, but the stories were absolutely, completely different. While I didn't come away from it persuaded that her "side" was right, I did come away from it understanding far better why she believed the things that she did.
I don't need to ask because all my conservative FB friends tend to repost everything they read anyway.

On my timeline I see stories like how Trump just killed funding for embryonic tissue research, new legislation limiting transgender rights, and opened up national park lands for hunting and ATVs.

On my conservative friends timelines I see posts about how the FBI framed Trump and how AOC and Bernie Sanders are communists who want open borders.

 
Old 06-08-2019, 07:13 AM
 
58,528 posts, read 26,835,306 times
Reputation: 14114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot1 View Post
Robert Reich is one of the most Far Left, radicals in the public venue. I have seen him speak in person, and read a lot of his Communist rants. Ignore him. He isn't worth your time. He was Bill Clinton's Secretary of Labor. That's all you need to know about this clown. Plus he has short man's complex.

Thank you but, I know all about him which is why I posted what I did.
 
Old 06-08-2019, 03:35 PM
 
14,879 posts, read 8,488,073 times
Reputation: 7312
Quote:
Originally Posted by bawac34618 View Post
But what's an American to a conservative?

If you aren't a white, heterosexual Christian who believes the Bible is the literal word of God and who believes in a patriarchal social order, and if you don't believe that America was founded on Christian principles, you don't apply.
Congratulations..... you have a PhD in Liberal Leftist Ideology, and a Master’s in Identity Politics and Racism.

Unfortunately, it won’t get you very far in life with such a skewed view of reality, which is somehow able to escape or ignore certain facts and flaws in your rather broad generalizations and stereotyping. Some of the more glaring examples of this might be the existence of black conservatives, white atheists, gay conservatives, gay Christians, etc. I understand how inconvenient that is, so we’ll just pretend not to notice.

Now, for a real dose of realty .... the left’s never ending efforts to create division among the masses is a well understood method of power and control. As they say, “divide and conquer”. Of course they use such terms as “diversity”, which they offer up as a tasty bowl of ice cream, when it’s nothing more than a pile of manure. But the truth is, diversity is just a more cleverly crafted term for divisiveness. They simply had to first drum into your head the lofty ideal, and positive nature of the term “diversity”, hoping you wouldn’t notice. Yet the synonym is difficult to miss, if you just look at the words ... divide, division, diverse ......

There is a singular reason behind their methods and strategy .... power of the masses is what authoritarians fear most. A people divided are more easy to control, while a people united, cannot be. So what must the authoritarian do .... create division, through “diversity”. Fracture society.... create infighting and competition between groups ... convince one group that the other is out to get them, to hold them down, to deny them their due .... it’s easy to do, once you are successful in convincing them to separate themselves from one another, on race, gender, orientation, religious affiliations, and any other differences you choose to capitalize on. And it’s all about appealing to the lower level instinct of “selfishness” .... this is the driving force behind it all. Everyone is now “hyphenated” ... and no longer simply Americans. We have a new paradigm of new “communities” like the “LGTB Community”; the African-American community; the Hispanic Community, etc. once upon a time, we were all living together as one community. And the diversity promoters won’t be satisfied until they create a level of division among society that has Wrangler Jean lovers in violent conflict with anyone wearing Levi’s.

This explains the unspoken reason why the authoritarian leftist democrats are so in favor of open borders. Just another element of “diversity”, and cultural disintegration, through nationality, and spoken language divisiveness. Then, the Democrats simply pander to each of the fractionated groups, promising freebies in mass, and protection from the “others” whose greed and selfishness will take away what is rightfully theirs, unless they are kept safe from the racists, bigots, homophobes, misogynists, and islamophobes.

The collective selfishness and ignorance of the diverse factions blinds them to the truth that they are being played like a piano, with the ultimate and predictable result of total self destruction.
 
Old 06-08-2019, 04:34 PM
 
14,879 posts, read 8,488,073 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohio_peasant View Post
Excellent post!

It's not mere cynicism to opine, that neither party and neither philosophical orientation has leadership or mouthpieces who are sincere, competent or well-meaning. However, what is the alternative? One might argue, that the present leadership in America is the result of mass-protest and dejection, in that either the one or the other traditional power was tried, and both were found to be lacking. So, a third-way, as it were, was sought. You need no convincing to observe that this third-way leaves something to be desired. Knowing what we know now, at least from present example, we might indeed be better off with some loudmouth charlatan from one or the other of the conventional camps.

You also mention that our political orientation is much contingent on our milieu. This is important. Many of our opinions aren't entirely our own, but instead are absorbed from without. Consider even in this thread, how one or another partisan loudly proclaims that his/her side is rational, serious, deliberative and sound... while the opposite is not merely wrong-headed, but outright no-headed. Sure, some of this is rhetorical flourish. But some is sincere. Do people really believe that their political antagonists are not just misguided, but are outright idiots? Or rather, is this belief absorbed by hearing such a statement repeated in one's particular milieu?

But back to out topic... while both (all?) political persuasions are largely the result of our environment, what we hear, with whom we associate and so forth, well, there is I think one distinction: conservative-thinking is particularly contingent on consideration for one's locals... not merely what they say, but where their interests lie. Liberals are less animated by such local considerations.
There is an old adage that says “2% of the people think ... 3% think they think .... and the other 95% would rather die than think”. I’m not sure I’m quite that cynical, pertaining to the 95%, but we’re only talking a few percentage points LOL.

The truth is, from early childhood, most are not trained to think for themselves, but simply to do as they are told, and not to question instructions. It doesn’t change much in later years, as education is designed to teach “what to think”, not “how to think”. Those who accept the “training” and retain the most, receive the highest grades. Therefore, education is memorization, rather than careful consideration of facts or evidences.

In today’s political spectrum, people operate more on beliefs rather than actual knowledge of facts or truths. Many will even claim that the truth is indeed a subjective matter, as opposed to a clearly defined matter that all should agree on. This explains why we can all possess the same basic information, yet come to completely opposite conclusions about what that information proves.

That being said, from a “conservative” frame of reference, I find liberal ideology akin to mental illness, as I can find no consistent pattern of reason or thought behind the various liberal positions. A great example of this is the liberal support of Islam, while simultaneously supporting gay rights. The liberal apparently sees no conflicting issue here, even though Islam defends the right to kill homosexuals, for simply being homosexuals. How someone can miss this direct conflict in ideological position, astounds me. The liberal wants to ban firearms in response to a school shooting, yet will dress up in a giant vagina costume, parading around in celebration of the “right” to terminate the lives of a Million unborn children annually. I could cite similar conflicts for days on end, as there is an endless supply of examples.

Of course we have a plethora of definitions for what constitutes “conservatism” and “liberalism”, depending on who you ask, which makes the discussion of either, virtually impossible from that basis alone. Then we have people who don’t even understand what they believe, or why they believe it ... they just believe. Ask them why, and they’ll just call you a nasty name. How can you have a fruitful debate with someone who doesn’t even know why they believe what they believe? The answer is, you can’t.

This reminds me of a congresswoman who, responding to a news reporters question about Brett Kavanaugh’s innocence or guilt, by saying “I believe her, because she’s telling the truth”. What? Conversely, she must be telling the truth because the congresswoman believes her. This is circular reasoning on steroids and has no basis in fundamental reasoning. I find this to be endemic of the liberal mindset.

Last edited by GuyNTexas; 06-08-2019 at 04:50 PM..
 
Old 06-08-2019, 05:05 PM
 
14,879 posts, read 8,488,073 times
Reputation: 7312
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandsthetime View Post
Hmm, interesting. Politically ideology be damned, I'd much rather be a college professor than a corporate drone.
Thank goodness not everyone feels that way, else you’d have to walk to work, instead of driving a car. Wait, there wouldn’t be a university building to go to either, so you’d have to “profess” outdoors, and draw pictures in the dirt, with a stick.

Might get a little hungry at lunchtime too.
 
Old 06-08-2019, 05:17 PM
 
3,343 posts, read 1,253,238 times
Reputation: 3158
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas
I find liberal ideology akin to mental illness, as I can find no consistent pattern of reason or thought behind the various liberal positions. A great example of this is the liberal support of Islam, while simultaneously supporting gay rights. The liberal apparently sees no conflicting issue here, even though Islam defends the right to kill homosexuals, for simply being homosexuals. How someone can miss this direct conflict in ideological position, astounds me. The liberal wants to ban firearms in response to a school shooting, yet will dress up in a giant vagina costume, parading around in celebration of the “right” to terminate the lives of a Million unborn children annually. I could cite similar conflicts for days on end, as there is an endless supply of examples.
So much inconsistency here, lol.

First of all, we support the millions of peaceful Muslims, not the extremists. It's the extremists who execute gay people. Second, since when did Conservative's care about gay people?? lol. Christian Conservatives are just the flip side of the coin....you have so much in common with Conservative Muslim's but don't want to admit it.

Second, the only people killing children are Republican's who have no problem sending our young men and women to war based off fake WMD's. Yet you are so concerned about the fetus. We also fight environmental pollution to stop the deaths of thousands of children who die from various chemicals in the environment. But you don't care, you are so darn concerned about the fetus. Man-made climate change will cause our whole species to go extinct but you ignore the science and continue to obsess over the fetus.

I could cite similar conflicts for days on end, as there is an endless supply
 
Old 06-08-2019, 05:48 PM
 
14,879 posts, read 8,488,073 times
Reputation: 7312
Quote:
Originally Posted by bawac34618 View Post
The left is for social safety nets. Republicans are for more government intrusion into everyone's private lives to make sure they stay on "God's path."
The vast majority of government agencies, both federal and state, are constructs of left wing authoritarianism. Social Safety Nets? Department of Labor, Department of Health and Human Services, Social Security Administration, and the force collector to pay for it all, the Internal Revenue Service. The 16th Amendment, the Federal Reserve. The vast bureaucracy bankrupting the nation with 23 Trillion in debt, most of which was created by Democrats.

Quote:
No, you want to deny marriage benefits to same-sex couples because your Bible says we are an abomination. It's that simple. Republicans still do not understand that the Constitution, NOT the Bible, is the legal foundation of our society.
The Constitution? Since when are liberals champions of the Constitution? You don’t seem to agree with the 1st and 2nd Amendments? Is it not a liberal based organization titled “Freedom From Religion”? Is it not liberals trying to remove any reference to religion in public view? Is it not the liberals who find offense when wished “Merry Christmas”? Is it not liberals attempting to ban the right to bear arms?

But I’m curious.... can you point to this “Constitutional Protection” that declares the right for two men to marry each other shall not be infringed?

Quote:
Totally not true and you know it. Democrats are for safe and legal abortion. Republicans not only want to ban all abortion under all circumstances but also want to restrict birth control and make it more difficult to adopt, in effort to make sure children grow up in "God fearing" homes.
Safe for whom? Surely it isn’t safe for the baby.

Furthermore, I’m a conservative, and I don’t believe in a total ban on abortion under all circumstances, nor do I know a single person who advocates the restriction of birth control. Only a nut case would promote that nonsense. So what does that say of your perceptions?

As for the last point, I’m guessing that “making it more difficult to adopt children” is code for preventing mentally unstable people who are suffering gender identity issues from subjecting innocent children to such abnormal lifestyles? I’m sorry to tell you that such efforts are not geared toward harming the rights of adults, but of safeguarding the best interests of the children, who are reliant on us for their emotional and physical wellbeing. They are not pets to satisfy the emotional desires of adults ... they are our future.

As for the legalization of weed, I’m certainly against the government regulating what I can do, even though I choose not to smoke dope. I do smoke cigarettes, and I wish the liberals would stop trying to prevent that, or make it cost so much. Just another example of hypocrisy and cognitive dissonance.... dope ok to smoke, tobacco, not ok.
 
Old 06-08-2019, 11:06 PM
 
Location: moved
13,577 posts, read 9,594,825 times
Reputation: 23333
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
That being said, from a “conservative” frame of reference, I find liberal ideology akin to mental illness, as I can find no consistent pattern of reason or thought behind the various liberal positions. A great example of this is the liberal support of Islam, while simultaneously supporting gay rights. The liberal apparently sees no conflicting issue here, even though Islam defends the right to kill homosexuals, for simply being homosexuals. How someone can miss this direct conflict in ideological position, astounds me.
Presumably you're posing this question rhetorically, but I'll venture with a candidate answer, even though I'm not a modern liberal, and won't presume to speak for modern liberals.

The prime animating idea is that the prevailing cultural norms of one's own community are ossified, corrupt and malignant. This idea won't gather wide purchase, because the locals are too entrenched in the prevailing thinking. So, the remedy is to bring in vitriolic and uncompromising antagonists from without. Conservative Islam shares much with conservative Christianity, to the befuddled chagrin of both. What to do? Christian Americans won't of their own volition abandon their faith. But an apocalyptic (term used intentionally) battle between Christian and Muslim would be useful on multiple levels. First, it would cull the numbers of both. Second, it would discredit both, as being equally extreme in magnitude, though differing in direction. And third, it would leave the secular alternative as the most compelling remaining option, as it would be quite literally the last man standing.

Islam is therefore appealing not because it's "diverse", or because it holds any philosophically compelling ideas, or because it's somehow cool or hip or exotic, but because it's the best tool for sticking it to the conservative Christians. Think of it as chemotherapy: itself a noxious poison, injected to fight an even more noxious malignancy.
 
Old 06-08-2019, 11:08 PM
 
Location: Panama City, FL
3,536 posts, read 1,688,691 times
Reputation: 1399
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicano3000X View Post
Conservatives are Tribalism to an extreme. There is a very real reason the left have such a hard time with unity and the Right does not. The Left by and large focus on issues, and many of them are so hung up on different specific issues that they will attack each other as much as they attack the opposing Right.

The Right cares more about loyalty. This fact is why they are so willing to back "their team" even when presented with hard evidence that those individuals act in direct opposition to their supposed values.

You want to know why it doesn't make sense that they cry about things like universal health care, but don't cry about the trillions spent on pointless wars? Because it isn't made to make sense. You will never logic your way out of people who are climate change deniers, deficit apologists, border wall supporters etc. They are thinking on a tribal level, not a logical one.

This fact is because tribalism taps into fundamental conservative beliefs. Conservatives are much more sympathetic to things like authoritarianism, classism, racism, etc. because it is based fundamentally on the idea that some people are simply better than other people. And, often times, those "better people" are frequently people that conservatives can associate with themselves, whether that is "being an American, being a Republican, being a Texan, being white, being a man, being a soldier, being wealthy etc."

So, when a man comes up and says "I am you, but I am the best of you. I am a White, wealthy, American man, and I am here to tell you that Climate change doesn't real." You just accept that as fact because you're not going to crucify one of your own, especially if you believe he is better than you.

This fact is why the left is far more likely to crucify their own over "petty" things. You think Anthony Weiner or Al Franken would be out of office if they were Republicans? When was the last time you saw Republicans call for the resignation of one of their own over a sex scandal, an indictment, a racist past, etc. ? It's not impossible, but it is far from common. They are far more likely to call for their head when they trample on "their side's" policies like Gun control or Abortion.

The "Left" isn't perfect, but it is FAR less susceptible from this tribalism, and it causes them to be fractured. This is why you see nuts on the left tend to be isolated into pockets unable to form a good coalition, because they are typically not immune from criticism from "their own side."

The problem is the Democrats act like the Right has those same standards, but the Right takes advantage of the loyalty of their base, and in brilliant fashion.


Agree or disagree?

Bonus: someone stated “Democrats fall in love, conservatives fall in line”..
Lot of truth in this. I hope the G.O.P. falls into the abyss of hell. I'm sick of their hypocrisy and double standards. They are horrible killers of every form of life.
 
Old 06-09-2019, 12:25 AM
 
Location: Planet Telex
5,885 posts, read 3,863,205 times
Reputation: 5839
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
Thank goodness not everyone feels that way, else you’d have to walk to work, instead of driving a car. Wait, there wouldn’t be a university building to go to either, so you’d have to “profess” outdoors, and draw pictures in the dirt, with a stick.

Might get a little hungry at lunchtime too.
Not sure how you reached that conclusion. Did I expect everyone else to feel that way? That would be absurd since everyone has their own likes, talents, and dreams. Individualism ring a bell, anyone? And surely diversity of thought on college campuses by non-liberal voices would be a good thing, no?
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