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Now one of the tanker owners is directly contradicting the US story.
"We received reports that something flew towards the ship," said Yutaka Katada, president of Kokaku Sangyo Co. at a press conference. "The place where the projectile landed was significantly higher than the water level, so we are absolutely sure that this wasn’t a torpedo.
I guess one good thing about a completely incompetent administration is that they are more likely to fail when they try to wag the dog.
Iran might have wanted to look like the good guy in the peace talks. The Japanese ships have an “accident” and Iran comes to the rescue, and saves the ships and rescues the crew.
Iran has no history of doing anything like this. We do.
Not as long as they keep building up their middle class which is already the largest in the world. They won't need the world except to buy the cheap crap to keep the really poor Chinese busy with work. There's 1.6 billion Chinese.
The problem with your argument is you think China just makes low end junk. That is a fallacy. And they will make more money selling products to 8 billion people instead of only selling to their people.
We had the support of the Iraqi people and the Kurds to a certain extent we will get zero support in Iran. Where are we getting 50,000 or 75,000 soldiers from, a draft.
First let me say I am NOT advocating for a war with Iran. That would be a foolish waste of blood and treasure. I am advocating for limited strikes which diminishes Iran’s abilities to threaten shipping. Several liberal posters however have replied with responses that suggested that should full scale war erupt that we would lose. That is ridiculous, our military is fully capable of invading Iran successfully as long as we send enough resources, which we can do.
In Iraq we did not use 75000 to invade that nation, we sent 200000. That was NOT enough and that is why it took 7 years to win a war that should have taken only a few. Only when we sent more troops (thanks senator McCain) was the war won. Iran is bigger and a more prepared adversary. We would likely need 500000 plus troops to do the job. Leftists like to claim a second rate power like Iran can embarrass us or its “another Vietnam”, they are wrong. Yes, we have the best military in the world and we could beat Iran if we were forced into a war. As far as I can see there is no reason for a full scale war to erupt and one should be avoided if at all possible.
We must all remember that our military was winning in Vietnam, leftist hippies and political leaders lost Vietnam. We shouldn’t have been there but we SHOULD HAVE won that war as well.
First let me say I am NOT advocating for a war with Iran. That would be a foolish waste of blood and treasure. I am advocating for limited strikes which diminishes Iran’s abilities to threaten shipping. Several liberal posters however have replied with responses that suggested that should full scale war erupt that we would lose. That is ridiculous, our military is fully capable of invading Iran successfully as long as we send enough resources, which we can do.
No we can't. When the bodies start piling up the people will revolt.
Quote:
In Iraq we did not use 75000 to invade that nation, we sent 200000. That was NOT enough and that is why it took 7 years to win a war that should have taken only a few. Only when we sent more troops (thanks senator McCain) was the war won. Iran is bigger and a more prepared adversary. We would likely need 500000 plus troops to do the job. Leftists like to claim a second rate power like Iran can embarrass us or its “another Vietnam”, they are wrong. Yes, we have the best military in the world and we could beat Iran if we were forced into a war. As far as I can see there is no reason for a full scale war to erupt and one should be avoided if at all possible.
We must all remember that our military was winning in Vietnam, leftist hippies and political leaders lost Vietnam. We shouldn’t have been there but we SHOULD HAVE won that war as well.
Iran might have wanted to look like the good guy in the peace talks. The Japanese ships have an “accident” and Iran comes to the rescue, and saves the ships and rescues the crew.
You’re Tonkin crazy right now. Best to wait until the facts are all in before you start Tonkin senselessly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielj72
The strategy you laid out for Iran to use against us is the same one Iraq uses. It took us seven years but we did defeat them and we did it with an undersized force. Iran is bigger, Persians are more sophisticated than Arabs so I acknowledge that it will be tougher but if we sent a sufficient sized force then yes we would win. However I do believe your assessment of Iran’s response is incorrect. The Mullahs know they will lose power in the America invades scenario so I do not believe they would continue poking us after they have been hit for attacking tankers. In fact we have hit them for the same thing back in the 80s. They backed down then and they will back down now. We need a show of strength to get them to stop.
Just curious, you think we should do nothing while a rouge state indiscriminately attacks international shipping in a critical shipping lane? What do you think should be done?
There is no sufficient sized force that could defeat Iran. Your rosy scenarios aren’t feasible, and if you’ve learned anything from Iraq, you shouldn’t even assert them. You should assume the absolute worst. Especially because in Iran, that’s what you’re gonna get.
My assessment of what the Mullahs might do may be incorrect, but I’m correct in assuming it. To not assume it is irresponsible. Moreover, the Mullahs won’t lose power under a U.S. invasion. You’ve got it backwards. They’ll lose OFFICIAL power, but will gain UNOFFICIAL power underground much the way Khomeini did in all his years of living in exile. Sure, we’ll find a sufficient number of pro-American puppets to replace the Mullahs in official power, but they’ll lack legitimacy in the eyes of the only group that matters: the Iranians themselves.
As to your point about it taking 7 years to straighten out Iraq, that’s magnanimous of you, but ok, I’ll play along for sh*ts and giggles. Fact is, we don’t have 7 years in Iran. More to the point, the American people will be hard pressed to give the Trump Administration 7 months. After Iraq, that leash is far shorter, as it should be. The body counts will be far higher, and the sight of American troops dying on Persian soil, which may as well be Neptune for all but the most ardently hawkish Americans, will be too much to stomach. Trump’s opponents will easily undermine his presidency and the Republican Party will be pretty close to being destroyed. So the political feasibility is bad too.
To your question as to what we SHOULD do in this case? Nothing. That’s what we should do. If our ships are attacked, then respond in kind. But this incident or others like it? Ignore it.
First let me say I am NOT advocating for a war with Iran. That would be a foolish waste of blood and treasure. I am advocating for limited strikes which diminishes Iran’s abilities to threaten shipping. Several liberal posters however have replied with responses that suggested that should full scale war erupt that we would lose. That is ridiculous, our military is fully capable of invading Iran successfully as long as we send enough resources, which we can do.
In Iraq we did not use 75000 to invade that nation, we sent 200000. That was NOT enough and that is why it took 7 years to win a war that should have taken only a few. Only when we sent more troops (thanks senator McCain) was the war won. Iran is bigger and a more prepared adversary. We would likely need 500000 plus troops to do the job. Leftists like to claim a second rate power like Iran can embarrass us or its “another Vietnam”, they are wrong. Yes, we have the best military in the world and we could beat Iran if we were forced into a war. As far as I can see there is no reason for a full scale war to erupt and one should be avoided if at all possible.
We must all remember that our military was winning in Vietnam, leftist hippies and political leaders lost Vietnam. We shouldn’t have been there but we SHOULD HAVE won that war as well.
We got our ass kicked in Vietnam, and it had nothing to do with politics or hippies. We were beaten by a superior Army. The NVA and the Vietcong were the best of the best...the cream of the crop in asymmetrical warfare. Stop lying to yourself to make you feel better.
All this revisionism is why we keep ending up in losing wars.
The problem with your argument is you think China just makes low end junk. That is a fallacy. And they will make more money selling products to 8 billion people instead of only selling to their people.
i agree. that may have been largely true 20 years ago and still is in some instances, but overall the quality of stuff coming out of china these days is very good. and for the price, extremely good.
I am well aware of the video. The video does not prove what our government is alleging. And again, where is that smaller boat in the video now, where did it go, was it stopped?
Our government proved in the previous decade that if we need to manufacture "evidence" to justify going to war we can and will do it. And with John Bolton we have one of the major players in pushing the WMD narrative back once again.
The doctored video of Osama Bin Laden comes to mind. Somebody (*cough-CIA-cough*) paid some actor to sit there and say "Yes, yes, we did 9/11!" Meanwhile rumors abounded that he'd died in 2002 or thereabouts and had staunchly disavowed any involvement in 9/11.
Now one of the tanker owners is directly contradicting the US story.
"We received reports that something flew towards the ship," said Yutaka Katada, president of Kokaku Sangyo Co. at a press conference. "The place where the projectile landed was significantly higher than the water level, so we are absolutely sure that this wasn’t a torpedo.
I guess one good thing about a completely incompetent administration is that they are more likely to fail when they try to wag the dog.
After over 10,000 lies since he's been in office - it's really hard to believe anything the Trump administration says. It's times like this that all the lies will come back to haunt him.
No one wants war with Iran. Why has this administration been pushing for it?
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