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Old 06-14-2019, 05:49 AM
 
Location: OH->FL->NJ
16,949 posts, read 12,503,876 times
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This thing still reeks of false flag with involvement at the highest levels including the so called proof.
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Old 06-14-2019, 05:56 AM
 
Location: Fredericktown,Ohio
7,168 posts, read 5,347,489 times
Reputation: 2922
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot1 View Post
There will be no war. Just stop. Nobody wants that, especially Trump.
The guy in the one vid could have it right, he talked about how past POTUS were pushed into war by a event and listed Pearl Harbor and the gulf of Tonkin. The same fate most likely will happen with Trump considering the war hawks he has surrounded himself with. I am not referring to just air strikes and support of the Saudi's war with Yemen I am talking about U S troops in numbers in another country.

I thought the words of VP Pence were very telling when he stated the possibility of troops all over the world and pretty much told the audience it was in the bag. I do not know if you have noticed but all the war mongering talk has come from those inside the administration and not from Trump himself. He has a all star line up for that kind of talk, Bolton,Abrams etc, they all have Cheney on speed dial.

I do think Trump is trying to keep the U S out of wars that involve ground troops, etc I think he will make it out of the first term but his second term I think there will be troops in big numbers some where. U S foreign policy is too hawkish and to ready to get involved in every situation all over the world.
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Old 06-14-2019, 10:45 AM
 
29,358 posts, read 9,541,969 times
Reputation: 3426
Quote:
Originally Posted by phma View Post
I suppose we could just send up a white flag and isolate ourselves until some country steps up to rule over us by force. Listening to democrats tells us America has never been that great anyway there's nothing really worth protecting, I suppose !!! Democrats open border stance to replace citizens that won't vote for them is consistent with reasons not to defend ourselves or anyone else who is threated with violence.
Yes, I suppose we can just give up and throw the last 200 plus years on the trash heap and admit the experiment was a failure. I suppose...….. or we could fight for our way of life against those who would defeat and enslave us !!! Now there is a novel concept !!!
You suppose a lot of things that seem awfully goofy to me, like how the important question of going to war somehow translates to sending up a white flag and isolating ourselves until America is ruled over by force...

It's wildly extreme, even for you, to describe the situation with Iran in these terms, and then to go on with all the rest you strangely include about open borders. Giving up? "Throw the last 200 plus years on the trash heap and admit the experiment was a failure."

Hello! Earth to phma! Sure doesn't take much at all to set your guns a blazing!

I for one am in no way against taking up arms and fighting to the death for good reason, and now that I am well past age far as the military is concerned, I'm no less inclined when it comes to our sons and daughters putting their life on the line for the same good reasons. We've got a UUGE problem, however, if the thinking, logic and justification is anything like you describe!

There are ways not to repeat the mistakes made and lives needlessly lost in the past, like could have been avoided in Vietnam and Iraq. To be smarter about...

Well let's start with that, shall we? To be smarter!
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Old 06-14-2019, 10:51 AM
 
29,358 posts, read 9,541,969 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beach Sportsfan View Post
Hmm this isn’t a Democrat or Republican BS. We have been at war in the Middle East in both parties administration so let’s stop there.

I have no problem going to war when we have to. But too many times we have been proxy’s for others let’s take a look back and ask what have we gained?

So before we go in let’s make sure we have to and it’s in the interest of our country, no one else’s
Too many times we have been at war and had to look back at serious mistakes that could have been avoided from the beginning. Being critical about when, where and how to engage our military is not to be confused with declining our responsibilities as a significant world power. It's the opposite in fact!
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Old 06-14-2019, 10:52 AM
 
34,301 posts, read 15,546,929 times
Reputation: 13053
Quote:
Originally Posted by ottomobeale View Post
This thing still reeks of false flag with involvement at the highest levels including the so called proof.
Yeah, down play, deny, and then lie is the best policy when the proof shows up !!!

Run it through the Roswell filter !!!
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Old 06-14-2019, 11:03 AM
 
29,358 posts, read 9,541,969 times
Reputation: 3426
[quote=phma;55419133]
Quote:

Address the OP with that !!!
Trump was mentioned twice in post #1 and the meaning was clear !!!
I have no doubt the democrats want Trump to go to war so they could beat him up for it 24/7 and the democrat press would do just that !!!

If you don't have a problem going to war when we have to then you have no beef with what I said !!!

We have a State Dept. and Pompeo seems to have a handle on what's going on !!!

No one seems to be rushing into any war or turning a blind eye to aggression either. Major international sea lanes need to be kept open and ally's are being consulted. Diplomacy is taking place and its being brought to the International Security Council !!!
The only people rushing to judgement are implying Trump is wanting to go to war b/c he just wants too !!!
The same old worn out TDS crap that's been going on for 3 years !!!
Like you are addressing the OP?!?

Where is your rationale for when it makes sense to commit our military forces and when not? Isn't that what I'm essentially asking?

I know you would have all of us jump off a cliff if Trump said we should, but don't you remember all that even Trump said about the Iraq War? Afghanistan? “Great nations do not fight endless wars,” Trump said in his annual State of the Union address to Congress. If Obama said the same thing, no doubt you'd be claiming another "white flag" speech.

At the very least, should the United States simply be drawn into war without some better manner of confirming we have good cause, a way to succeed, with a viable exit strategy that makes sense all concerned rather than leading with our chins?

It doesn't take much at all for aggressive action, like sending war ships into the area and imposing blockades AKA "putting the squeeze on," before the inevitable retaliatory actions will begin, serious mistakes too...
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Old 06-14-2019, 11:10 AM
 
29,358 posts, read 9,541,969 times
Reputation: 3426
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldoKitty View Post
Trump hasn't started a "War of Choice" like Bill Clinton, GH Bush, GW Bush and the 4 that Obama started.
Do you mean not yet?

"With no diplomatic relations between the two countries, no serious dialogue underway despite efforts by other countries to mediate, and no let-up in U.S. economic pressure on Iran, former U.S. officials, foreign diplomats and experts said there is a growing risk that a miscalculation, coupled with deep distrust, could trigger a conflict that neither side wants.

"In many ways, I feel like this is a 1914 moment for the region, that a single incident could put the entire region on fire," said Ali Vaez, Iran project director at the International Crisis Group think tank.

"Although this particular incident might not be the one to push the parties over the edge of the abyss of war, each cycle of escalation brings us closer to the brink."

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKCN1PV07M
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Old 06-14-2019, 11:13 AM
 
46,838 posts, read 25,764,732 times
Reputation: 29317
Quote:
Originally Posted by phma View Post
...we could fight for our way of life against those who would defeat and enslave us !!!
Iran intends to defeat and enslave us?
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Old 06-14-2019, 11:18 AM
 
Location: In The Thin Air
12,566 posts, read 10,563,300 times
Reputation: 9247
There is absolutely no reason to go to war with Iran. If you believe they bombed those tankers then you are gullible. This is the Iraq war part two. Maybe Powell can dust off his presentation boards and just change the "q" in Iraq to a "n".

It was only a matter of time the drums started beating after Bolton was appointed. War would be a major deflection point for Mr. Trump.
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Old 06-14-2019, 11:22 AM
 
29,358 posts, read 9,541,969 times
Reputation: 3426
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobdreamz View Post
I've been saying this for a while now but with Bolton on board there is no doubt that he will seek a way to start a war with Iran even if the US has to secretly bomb oil tankers in the Gulf.
I wouldn't go as far as to suggest the U.S. would do such a thing, though with Trump as POTUS I've grown accustomed to the realization we're far more dependent on the whims of just one man than we've ever been in this country before...

There is nothing about Trump and/or his inner circle of advisers that gives me any sense of comfort we are being guided by the necessary intelligence and good judgement to avoid unnecessary military conflict, and there are more than a few indications that Americans -- all of us -- are victims of Trump's bad judgement, beginning with Trump's unilateral decision to withdraw from the nuclear agreement the United States had previously agreed to with Iran (along with three other major powers)! According to the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), Iran was adhering to the treaty terms.

Now what?

We're surprised by whatever Iran might do? They're to blame for escalation now regardless what happens?
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