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Old 01-30-2022, 09:52 PM
 
Location: USA
18,491 posts, read 9,159,286 times
Reputation: 8524

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The Constitution doesn’t matter. Money is what matters.

With enough money, you can buy enough Supreme Court justices to make the Constitution mean whatever you want it to mean. That’s what lawyers do: twist the meaning of words for the benefit of their clients.

Changing the Constitution will not unseat the Oligarchy. Until you find a way to take away their money, absolutely nothing will change.
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Old 01-30-2022, 10:42 PM
 
Location: Stillwater, Oklahoma
30,976 posts, read 21,633,814 times
Reputation: 9676
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
The only positive outcome of a constitutional convention is that it might hasten the dissolution of the United States.
And advance the big corporate agenda worse than ever.
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Old 01-30-2022, 10:45 PM
 
Location: Stillwater, Oklahoma
30,976 posts, read 21,633,814 times
Reputation: 9676
Quote:
Originally Posted by sholomar View Post
https://www.wowt.com/2022/01/28/nebr...al-convention/

https://thefederalist.com/2022/01/28...tion-of-states

Can we get to 34 states? Imposing term limits, limiting the ability of the federal reserve to do QE infinity, along with limiting the ability of the federal government to meddle in state affairs are three of the most important issues besides the unchecked flying in of immigrants and the cradle to grave welfare state. What thinks you? Is this something that would blow up in our faces if we tried it?
Don't you also want all abortion banned? And all birthdates must start on the day of conception, not on day of birth.
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Old 01-31-2022, 12:12 AM
 
Location: San Diego
18,727 posts, read 7,606,770 times
Reputation: 14999
Quote:
Originally Posted by sholomar View Post
Is this something that would blow up in our faces if we tried it?
It is very possible.

We should only call a Constitutional Convention if the Constitution was so badly written that we needed to chuck it all out and start anew. Even if we don't plan to do that, who says that enough nefarious people couldn't slip in and do it anyway?

But in fact the Constitution is NOT so badly written.

While not perfect, it is excellent in many ways, and stands in history as one of the best documents ever written to structure a government for a country, give that govt its powers, and FORBID the govt from doing anything that is not expressly given to it (the rest of the authority being reserved to the States and the People).

People calling for a Constitutional Convention seem enamored of the fact that they could reduce the modification or rewriting of the Constitution to a relatively few people, who could do anything they wanted in one fell swoop.

Why or Earth do you feel that ONLY YOUR people would be in this convention and proposing and voting on (possibly major) changes??? You saw what the Democrats have done (or tried to do) to the last election, the last few Supreme Court appointments, etc. The idea that "we" will put together a relatively small body whose work could wreak such major changes on the entire structure and function of the country and make them stick, is nothing less than horrifying.

Fortunately, the only thing this Constitutional Convention can actually do, is PROPOSE amendments, large and small. And anything they PROPOSE, must then go to the states, where 3/4 of the states' legislatures (or 3/4 of individual state Constitutional Conventions) must ratify it. If fewer than 3/4 do that, the proposed changes go in the trash can, and the result of the Const Conv is nothing.

The first Constitutional Convention in 1787, wasn't called that when it was convened. Its only purpose was to discuss modifying the existing document that ran the country (the "Articles of Confederation").

But just as I have described above, a bunch of other people who had very different ideas, wangled their way in and threw out the entire founding document, replacing it with the Constitution we know today. Thank the Lord that they had excellent ideas that largely worked well: Limiting the power of the Fed Govt and reserving all other powers to the States and People. And they had the honesty and dedication to make sure that that was the Convention's final product... and no other.

Do you honestly think the Democrats, regardless of what they tell us they would do, would arrive at a document that does that? Not hardly. In the name of "helping the needy", they would explode government, throw out every check and balance, and clamp controls on every facet of economic, business, communication, and personal life that exists. The country would be so choked and prostrate in just a few years, that we would be left gasping and wishing for the good old days of 2020 and its Democrat-led Summer of Love when the country went "only a little" insane.

The idea that you can control what goes on inside a Constitutional Convention, is arrogant and lunatic to the point of insanity. The idea of starting one, is complete lunacy... especially when the Constitution provides a much gentler means of correct problems: Introducing and ratifying amendments one at a time, in the "normal" way.

A Constitutional Convention could very easily "blow up in our faces" as the OP described. Why should we come within a mile of doing such a thing, when much better methods of changing the Constitution - better and more easily controlled by groups farthest from the Fed Govt itslef: the 50 states themselves - exist and have been well proven?
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Old 01-31-2022, 12:23 AM
 
Location: San Diego
18,727 posts, read 7,606,770 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPC324 View Post
Even among those 27, several came in bunches. Bill of Rights, 13-15, the 21st to appeal a previous one, etc
Don't forget the most nefarious amendments of them all, that came in a group:

* Feb. 3, 1913: Amendment 16 (taxes on incomes from all sources), and

* April 8, 1913: Amendment 17 (destroying the purpose of the only body whose job was to safeguard the powers of individual states from the encroachments of a power-hungry Federal govt, and replacing it with one that merely responds only to the now-unchecked passions and prejudices of the people, making it identical in all major ways to an already-existing body, the House).

Between them, these two amendments planted the seeds of a Federal govt with rapidly dwindling checks and balances on its ambitions and desire for power, and put in motion the means to finance its exploding programs and powers without limit.
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Old 01-31-2022, 05:19 AM
 
Location: Free State of Florida
25,730 posts, read 12,808,029 times
Reputation: 19290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
Your proposals have a zero-percent chance of success. The only positive outcome of a constitutional convention is that it might hasten the dissolution of the United States.
I see it bringing the states closer together as a union against the federal government's constant intrusions.
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Old 01-31-2022, 05:39 AM
 
Location: Free State of Florida
25,730 posts, read 12,808,029 times
Reputation: 19290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboteer View Post
Don't forget the most nefarious amendments of them all, that came in a group:

* Feb. 3, 1913: Amendment 16 (taxes on incomes from all sources), and

* April 8, 1913: Amendment 17 (destroying the purpose of the only body whose job was to safeguard the powers of individual states from the encroachments of a power-hungry Federal govt, and replacing it with one that merely responds only to the now-unchecked passions and prejudices of the people, making it identical in all major ways to an already-existing body, the House).

Between them, these two amendments planted the seeds of a Federal govt with rapidly dwindling checks and balances on its ambitions and desire for power, and put in motion the means to finance its exploding programs and powers without limit.
Ancient history. That is like saying the Yankees have won more World Series than any other team, so they'll win the next World Series they play in. Different players, different game, different times.

I'd like to see an amendment to establish a minimum federal tax, & also to abolish federal withholding.

Hey VIRGINIA, do you see what Nebraska just did? Now it's YOUR turn, so please make it so while you have all the momentum.
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Old 01-31-2022, 07:17 AM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
14,848 posts, read 8,207,531 times
Reputation: 4590
Quote:
Originally Posted by beach43ofus View Post
I see it bringing the states closer together as a union against the federal government's constant intrusions.
Please tell me what amendments to the Constitution would be approved by 75% of the states. That is 38 states. If 13 states disapprove of the amendment it will not happen.

That means at least one of these states, California, New York, Massachusetts, Vermont, Maryland, New Jersey, Washington State, Oregon, Illinois, Rhode Island, Connecticut, Hawaii, and Minnesota, has to agree to your amendment(plus every other state).


I haven't seen any proposals in this entire thread that require a Constitutional amendment. For term-limits the states can impose them within their own borders, yet only 15 states have them. You're not going to abolish the Federal Reserve, you're not going to abolish the welfare-state, you're not going to get a balanced-budget, you're not going to ban abortion.


The amendment process serves only two purposes...

1) Force a minority of states to adopt the policies of the majority of states(13/14/15/18/19/24/26).

2) Give the Federal Government more power or change the wording of an election process(11/12/16/17/20/22/23/25).

The only exceptions would be the 21st which repeals the 18th. And the 27th which doesn't really do anything.

Point is, other than the Bill of Rights, which only exists because the Constitution wouldn't have been ratified without it, there are no amendments which restrict Federal Power.


The only possible benefit of a Constitutional Convention, is that it would raise expectations among the radicals, causing them to become even more radical.
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Old 01-31-2022, 10:50 AM
 
Location: Free State of Florida
25,730 posts, read 12,808,029 times
Reputation: 19290
Quote:
Originally Posted by ditchoc View Post
The Constitution has been amended 27 times, most recently in 1992, although there have been over 11,000 amendments proposed since 1789.


Good luck with that.

No luck needed.

Everyone said we couldn't beat German & Japan too!

Don't unestimate Americans when they are all pulling in the same direction.

We'll hold the corrupt DC politicans surrender ceremony on the front lawn of the Capitol.
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Old 01-31-2022, 11:10 AM
 
Location: Free State of Florida
25,730 posts, read 12,808,029 times
Reputation: 19290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
Yes. Half the country despises the other half.
Problem being there is that half that is willing to use any means necessary to force the submission of the other half.
If anyone is uncertain they can look to the covid response to see which half is which.
The media makes it appear that way, but Americans are mostly centrists on the right and the left. IMHO...60%+ are patriotic Americans 1st, & party loyalists 2nd. Heck more are independendents than anything else, & most of them are centrists too.

At the most, we have 20% wacko's on the extreme left & 20% extreme wacko's on the extreme right sandwiching the 60% in the middle (centrists).

The media, the top 1%, The Fortune 500, & DC, have joined forces with the wacko's on BOTH sides to divide and conquer the centrists. That is how a minority is controling a majority....divide & conquer.

A Constitutional Convention is a way the Centrists can all come together to do a great re-set to regain control...if its done right which is a big if. The minority in power will be bribing the states with all they have.
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