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Old 06-22-2019, 10:11 AM
 
1,031 posts, read 638,567 times
Reputation: 289

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
Re: bold: from 2013:



Wal-Mart Fined $110 Million Over Hazardous Waste

The world's largest retailer pleads guilty to dumping hazardous chemicals in city trash bins and sewer systems.

https://www.industryweek.com/environ...azardous-waste

More recently:

Walmart Pays $282 Million to End Long-Running Bribe Probes

Read more at: https://www.bloombergquint.com/onweb...-brazil-bribes

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/20/b...ettlement.html

Thank God we had the government to regulate them huh?
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Old 06-22-2019, 10:17 AM
 
Location: *
13,242 posts, read 4,919,895 times
Reputation: 3461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boer View Post
Thank God we had the government to regulate them huh?
Ask those on the libertarian spectrum, including the an-caps.
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Old 06-22-2019, 10:24 AM
 
Location: *
13,242 posts, read 4,919,895 times
Reputation: 3461
Those on the libertarian spectrum have institutionalized bribery, transforming the legislative process into an auction:

Quote:
Walmart Inc. has agreed to pay $282 million in penalties and a Brazilian unit admitted to violating a U.S. anti-bribery law, providing a relatively subdued ending to a seven-year investigation that spanned the globe and at one point looked poised to yield record foreign-corruption fines.

In parallel announcements on Thursday, the Justice Department and the Securities and Exchange Commission faulted the country’s largest retailer over payments made to fast-track store openings in Mexico, China, Brazil, and India. Walmart will pay about $138 million in criminal penalties and $144 million in disgorgement to resolve the SEC’s allegations.
Walmart Pays $138 Million in Years-Long DOJ Bribe Inquiry | Fortune
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Old 06-22-2019, 10:30 AM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
22,216 posts, read 21,658,893 times
Reputation: 7608
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boer View Post
actually this thread is 100% about corporate propaganda

nobody likes to pay their taxes

it's the hard work that we have to do to maintain a civilized Society

those that want to DEFUND the government and end it's regulatory dominance over them have invested a lot of money in fake news propaganda

that is what I'm trying to expose here

you have drank deeply from the corporate Kool Aid if you consider yourself a victim a slave or ever suggest that the government will react violently if you don't pay your taxes
What you're saying is that libertarians hold their views, based on propaganda by corporates - you need to go beyond just saying things, and show why that is so.

I think taking money off people, for services and a social order not wanted by the person, is a form of slavery, and the State will eventually use force if you don't comply with it's demands -the first statement can't be logically shown to be incorrect, and the second is self evident.
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Old 06-22-2019, 10:38 AM
 
Location: Madison, WI
5,301 posts, read 2,353,256 times
Reputation: 1229
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
People, including their "bodies" are not "somethings" period full stop.

Claiming rape etc. would be justified if no one had the exclusive right to their own body is just more of the same old lame old sophistry.
You can assert that, but you haven’t explained why. Why isn’t your body “something”?
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Old 06-22-2019, 10:41 AM
 
Location: Madison, WI
5,301 posts, read 2,353,256 times
Reputation: 1229
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boer View Post
So what's your next move when a hostile organized Society runs over the hill with weapons to take your hippy hideaway over???

would you stand in fight?

Grab valuables and flee?

Or help the hostiles round up your family?
Same as any fight. If you think you can win, you can all stand and fight. If you think you have no chance, maybe you run.
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Old 06-22-2019, 10:50 AM
 
Location: *
13,242 posts, read 4,919,895 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T0103E View Post
You can assert that, but you haven’t explained why. Why isn’t your body “something�
People are not property; people, including their bodies, are not things.
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Old 06-22-2019, 11:04 AM
 
Location: Madison, WI
5,301 posts, read 2,353,256 times
Reputation: 1229
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
People are not property; people, including their bodies, are not things.
You can repeat that, but you haven't explained why.

Other people can't be your legitimate property, I agree there. The reason I say you own your body is what I said earlier... the purpose of ownership is to establish who has the highest claim to something, and every human being has the highest claim over their own body. No one else has a higher claim over you than you do.

I'm not sure why you disagree with that, other than negative feelings toward the words "thing" or "property" or "ownership". We're all "things" - we're made of matter and exist in the universe - but that doesn't mean we're on the same level as a car, or a refrigerator, or a pencil, or some inanimate object. Those "things" don't have free will or consciousness. We do, which is why no one else has the right to say "I have a higher claim over your body than you do".

Which leads to the point that a ruler/ruling group is someone who claims the right to overrule your claim to your own body and life. We object to that, because no one has that special privilege. We're all equally human.
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Old 06-22-2019, 11:16 AM
 
Location: *
13,242 posts, read 4,919,895 times
Reputation: 3461
Quote:
Originally Posted by T0103E View Post
You can repeat that, but you haven't explained why.

Other people can't be your legitimate property, I agree there. The reason I say you own your body is what I said earlier... the purpose of ownership is to establish who has the highest claim to something, and every human being has the highest claim over their own body. No one else has a higher claim over you than you do.

I'm not sure why you disagree with that, other than negative feelings toward the words "thing" or "property" or "ownership". We're all "things" - we're made of matter and exist in the universe - but that doesn't mean we're on the same level as a car, or a refrigerator, or a pencil, or some inanimate object. Those "things" don't have free will or consciousness. We do, which is why no one else has the right to say "I have a higher claim over your body than you do".

Which leads to the point that a ruler/ruling group is someone who claims the right to overrule your claim to your own body and life. We object to that, because no one has that special privilege. We're all equally human.
The only way a non-living entity can be held accountable for its action, behavior, crimes, etc. is to pay fines. For example, Walmart, as a non-corporeal non-living entity, pays a fine for criminal behavior & continues its business model. As much as the 'market will bear' or 'as long as the benefit to the corporation is more than the fines they have to pay if caught committing'.
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Old 06-22-2019, 12:06 PM
 
Location: *
13,242 posts, read 4,919,895 times
Reputation: 3461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boer View Post
actually this thread is 100% about corporate propaganda

nobody likes to pay their taxes

it's the hard work that we have to do to maintain a civilized Society

those that want to DEFUND the government and end it's regulatory dominance over them have invested a lot of money in fake news propaganda

that is what I'm trying to expose here

you have drank deeply from the corporate Kool Aid if you consider yourself a victim a slave or ever suggest that the government will react violently if you don't pay your taxes
You're correct to identify it as corporate propaganda. It mostly started with libertarian ideologue Milton Friedman in the 1940s & continues full force in the present day:

Quote:
... According to Congressional hearings on illegal lobbying activities '46 was the year that Milton Friedman and his U Chicago cohort George Stigler arranged an under-the-table deal with a Washington lobbying executive to pump out covert propaganda for the national real estate lobby in exchange for a hefty payout, the terms of which were never meant to be released to the public. ...
When Congress Busted Milton Friedman (and Libertarianism Was Created By Big Business Lobbyists)

https://www.nsfwcorp.com/dispatch/milton-friedman/
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