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No, ever since WW2, American Citizens have had zero say about our foreign policy.
The time line may change but the goal remains.
Iran must go.
Next China and Russia. You will see a very fine microscope focused on every person in China and Russia that makes a derogatory statement against the western powers in order to also change their leadership.
As Madeleine Albright said, millions of children and people dying is worth the price in order to attain their goals.
In the geopolitical circus when it comes to control and power, several American Cities could be sacrificed in order to fulfill their agenda.
Everyone must be subservient to the New World Order.
Much as I'd like to disagree, it's hard not to argue Americans are little more than spectators waiting to see where we'll spill our treasures next, no matter what we think...
At a minimum, Congress needs to better serve as a "check and balance" that will perhaps make it more likely our military strategies can be successful on both a short-term and long-term basis. This business of ANY President having so much unilateral power to bring the most powerful country on the planet to war is borderline barbaric! Doesn't matter whether you happen to agree with this one or not. No one man or woman should NOT have this kind of power...
Creating myths of what might have happened if something else didn't happen doesn't do anything to justify Trump's and this White House handling of this potentially very serious situation.
Thank you. I do so much agree with you, but you are asking Trump supporters to stop doing what they do best! Not likely to happen no matter the calls for more intelligent logic and reason.
"For the great enemy of truth is very often not the lie--deliberate, contrived and dishonest--but the myth--persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. Too often we hold fast to the cliches of our forebears. We subject all facts to a prefabricated set of interpretations. We enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- JFK
Trump blew away the idea? Sorry, the US's Cold War antics slowly eroded the trust, and the lovely, and false, WMD claim re-energized this distrust post-Cold War.
"Soviet Revolution?" There was no such thing. You don't even know the language. And who did we betray? The Tsar?
Not the Tsar, Russia.
Russia was our oldest most consistent ally, and we helped starve them after the war. That was the ultimate betrayal and Russians know the US is not trustworthy.
We betrayed them again in the 90s with Yeltsin when they reached out for our support. Instead we helped sell their country down the river.
Even during the cold war we were the ones that ended detente.
I should have worded that better, my bad. Point is, you could cooperate with previous administrations without paying a huge political price. Take, Afghanistan, or to a lesser degree Iraq, or the airstrike campaign against ISIS. Pirate patrols off Somalia, even. Or the removal of Syria's chemical stockpiles. It was at least possible to cooperate with the US without it costing too much political capital at home.
Now? Trump's first major foreign policy move was to cast doubt on US commitment to NATO. That's not forgotten. FFS, he went to London on an official visit, and it would have been so easy - special relationship, old steadfast allies, turbulent times but confident the British people will make the right decision, the US will of course be among the first to welcome Britain if she decides to strike out on her own, boisterous protest signs of a politically engaged populace in a free society, yada yada. And what does he he do? Bring up NHS. The third rail in UK politics. It's amazing.
Trump has "eased tensions" with Iran? What planet are you living on?
Truly we must be living on different planets and as such one really has to wonder why we bother exchanging opinion. There is just no reconciling viewpoints between people who have nothing but admiration for what Trump is, says and does versus those who consider Trump an utter embarrassment to the office of POTUS.
We might as well be talking on the phone with the mute function on...
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
We're talking about aircraft that have been flying dozens of times through an area only 15-20 miles wide. The Iranians have had plenty of time and opportunity to match visual sightings, courses, flight characteristics, and radar appearance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyRider
This could have easily been a commercial jetliner. Who would get the blame? Trump, you silly boy.
Here's some opinion maybe worth considering even if Trump is not able...
"In the cases of Generals H.R. McMaster, John Kelly and, finally, James Mattis–all of whom I’ve counted as not just colleagues but also friends–the details of each individual departure vary somewhat. But the common theme is actually pretty simple: President Trump simply cannot be briefed, staffed, scheduled or organized in a manner that long-serving military personnel find effective. I once asked Mattis–while he was considering the offer to become Secretary of Defense–how hard he thought it would be to work with a personality like Trump. He said it might not be “mission impossible” but he knew it was going to be “mission very difficult.” This from a man who has repeatedly taken on the toughest of assignments.
The President famously does not actually read the voluminous policy papers with which he is presented. From the perspective of a senior military mind, this would be akin to a car refusing to be gassed up. According to multiple reported accounts, Trump’s briefings have to be put in the simplest terms; the traditional complex military PowerPoint slides were anathema to him. The military presents its shared wisdom by detailing a traditional set of information: assumptions, existing conditions, courses of action, centers of gravity and, in the end, the ultimate three options suggested to the decisionmaker; the President prefers to go with his gut. This made for a continuous collision between the President and his generals, and the recent series of decisions-by-tweet (notably including the withdrawal from Syria) truly underscore the impossibility of molding the President’s approach."
Someone else asked if he/she was the only one scared that Trump was at the helm right now. No more really than if some drunk walked into a restaurant making wild threats while waiving a loaded gun...
The last president who actually read a truly detailed analysis of anything was Carter. The military briefings that get to the White House are actually extremely succinct (particularly considering the actual complexity of the situation): Bottom line at the top, direct explanation of vulnerabilities and opportunities, cut short the dance-off.
Now, here is a point civilians don't understand and can take a while for a president to understand: The military will never offer no military options. The generals will never, ever say, "We got nothing."
Lord Jesus knows that was hammered into me from Day One. You never tell the commander, "There is no way." In intel school, they even reached all the way back to Moses' spies in Canaan coming back and advising him to give up the invasion: "Never make that mistake." You never tell the boss there's no way to do it.
You can say the odds are silly, but you can't fail to offer a plan. The generals are often thinking, "This really sucks. I hope State can pull something better out of their asses." The problem is that presidents are erroneously likely to think that the offering of a military plan is the endorsement of military action. It's really more if the president is bound and determined for some reason to use the military, well, here is a plan.
If this president won't sit still for even that discussion, then, yes, it's a scary situation.
Last edited by Ralph_Kirk; 06-22-2019 at 11:19 AM..
International air space is 12 nautical miles off the coast of a country.
Something tells me that US will not tolerate any country, let alone Iran flying drone 13 nautical miles off the shores of NYC or LA.
We are just trying to provoke a conformation in the ME and wasting money there.
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