Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-27-2019, 09:36 PM
Status: "It Can't Rain All The Time" (set 17 hours ago)
 
Location: North Pacific
15,755 posts, read 7,558,709 times
Reputation: 2576

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by d4g4m View Post
There are 7.7 billion people worldwide. The U.S. allows 1.1 million enter the U.S. legally. That's 3000 people EVERY DAY. This doesn't include tens of thousands of 'vacation' VISA over stay people. Any person that can get to Mexico can cross the border illegally.
Why Record Numbers of African Migrants Are Showing Up at the U.S.-Mexican Border
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-27-2019, 09:42 PM
Status: "It Can't Rain All The Time" (set 17 hours ago)
 
Location: North Pacific
15,755 posts, read 7,558,709 times
Reputation: 2576
Default Statue of Liberty ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ysr_racer View Post
Umm, all of them?

The New Colossus

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
“Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free
,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!


If only it still held true. We digress though, I know ...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-27-2019, 10:27 PM
 
Location: Katy,Texas
6,457 posts, read 4,036,196 times
Reputation: 4497
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biker53 View Post
Why is a growing population automatically a good thing? Millions more each year requires vast amounts of resources in the form of water (which is increasingly scarce in some locales), farmland being given over to development, air quality via more cars, trucks etc, and then throw in the social costs of absorbing multitudes who don't speak English into our schools and communities and all of the added cost that entails, not to mention so many of them can't otherwise support themselves.

I live in Vermont. Our population is flat and our quality of life is rather high. Why should we want large increases in our population?
Well it isn't automatically a good thing but in developed countries it is certainly a good thing culturally and economically. More consumers= more money, more power etcetera. A personal example, Davido is a Nigerian artist, he was born and raised in Atlanta. Because of his millions of fans know this and recognize the various clothes he wears as well as the way he talks that is reminiscent of Atlanta, many Nigerians buy or consume the same things Davido has or pay more attention to things that he does, Atlanta grows on the world stage and maybe even gets some tourists spending money in the local economy. America as a whole grows on the world stage because one of the biggest artist in the world is from Atlanta. A better example is Yao-Ming and the growth of basketball in China and the revenue the NBA receives from China. Not only does immigration grow population over here leading to more of everything due to more consumers, but because of the soft power of immigration you can get stars who are homegrown getting support from their fathers homeland and get an out-sized economic boost because of it. American cities perform exceptionally well on the GDP ranking compared to their peers, why? Because each market is a country and if your country has more people a city like Fayetteville, Arkansas can become an economic powerhouse while a city twice or three times it size in a developed European country can't because Fayetteville's companies (Walmart) have access to at least 300 million Americans while the European company has access to only 10 million consumers, hence things like the EU get formed. Of course companies can become popular outside of their national borders, but this is in a situation where every country has it's own version of Walmart, then realistically which would be the most powerful Walmart, India's, China's and America's (not necessarily in that order) and India has insane linguistic diversity that could possible keep one Walmart from forming as regions where Hindi or English weren't dominant could have their own version of that.

Because America is the largest developed country and Japan is second, those two countries absolutely dominate the Company lists and all Americans benefit from that as an American company that is successful nationwide means more economically than in any other country in the world. China is quickly catching up but it's still decades away.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davido

This is also what people mean when they say Diversity is our Strength. People like to talk about the impact of say Latin American immigration in America, they never really talk about the reverse. Right now the biggest artists in America by far are Puerto Rican artists that do Reggaeton which is extremely popular throughout Latin America and gets billions of views. The soft power impact of these Americans on culture across Latin America is immense and only leads to growth in the American economy, when billions of non-Americans are consuming American media, on an American site (YouTube).

Last edited by NigerianNightmare; 06-27-2019 at 10:35 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-28-2019, 12:28 AM
Status: "It Can't Rain All The Time" (set 17 hours ago)
 
Location: North Pacific
15,755 posts, read 7,558,709 times
Reputation: 2576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biker53 View Post
Why is a growing population automatically a good thing? Millions more each year requires vast amounts of resources in the form of water (which is increasingly scarce in some locales), farmland being given over to development, air quality via more cars, trucks etc, and then throw in the social costs of absorbing multitudes who don't speak English into our schools and communities and all of the added cost that entails, not to mention so many of them can't otherwise support themselves.

I live in Vermont. Our population is flat and our quality of life is rather high. Why should we want large increases in our population?
Because a large part of the people living in Vermont are old, aging out of the workforce and dying.

Which U.S. States Are Aging the Fastest?

"North America is an aging; by 2050, 21.4 percent of the population will be 65 and older, according to the U.S. Census Bureau, thanks to lower birth rates and increased longevity. But while most U.S. states are gaining a higher proportion of older population, some are aging far more rapidly than others.
<snip>
Vermont is the most rapidly-aging state in America, having added seven percent more over-65s in the last decade. The state is experimenting with creative ways to attract younger residents. In May, The Remote Worker Grant Program was launched, which pays people $10,000 if they move to Vermont and work remotely for an employer out of state."
Quote:
Why is a growing population automatically a good thing?
The good, the bad, the don't know of it all ...
Growth of the World Population: Good News for Humans and the Planet

"Saving the lives of children in poor countries does not increase population growth, but actually reduces it."

The Role of Population in Economic Growth

"Low population growth in high-income countries is likely to create social and economic problems while high population growth in low-income countries may slow their development."

Growth is good

More people can often mean fewer problems

"For the economy, a slower increase in the population raises concerns about American competitiveness. But it could actually be a good thing. A number of economists, including the Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke are worried about the lack of inflation and income growth in the United States. Fewer workers could drive up salaries. What's more, fewer new Americans might help slow government spending. That may curtail the rising US federal debt, which many think will soon cause interest rates to jump and hold down US GDP growth. “At a time of fewer government resources, fewer new people might not be such a bad thing,” says New Hampshire's Johnson." ~ Adam Ozimek ~
<snip>
"Population growth isn't a cure-all, but in the present economic situation it's likely to make the resolution of a range of problems much easier."

Are ageing populations actually good news?

"To be sure, an ageing population poses obvious challenges for pension systems. And, as economists like Paul Krugman have suggested, it could also mean that advanced economies face not only a slow recovery, but also the danger of “secular stagnation”.
<snip>
Slower population growth might also reduce the increase in wealth-to-income ratios, and the resulting increase in inequality that Thomas Piketty recently highlighted. In many countries, the increase results primarily from the rise in real-estate prices relative to income, as more prosperous people devote a growing share of their income to purchasing property in desirable locations."

Population 7 Billion

^ a long read that basically the point I want to make from it is that we (world) have always doubled and tripled in size ...

Population Decline Is Bad For Us

Is population contraction a bad thing?

"Some think not. There is a school of thought that argues that smaller populations are good. Population-control proponents claim variously that:
  • We do not have the food to sustain higher populations.
  • Our planet already suffers from overcrowding.
  • The environmental impact of increased populations will bring catastrophe either through pollution or consumption of finite natural resources.
  • Decreased population will lead to higher wages and a better quality of life as available supplies exceed reduced demands.
These arguments seem reasonable at first, but do not withstand scrutiny.
<snip>
The supposed benefits of population decline are a mirage. The real question is whether falling populations will lead Western civilization to something like the fall of Rome."
_______________________

There's going to be a trade off situation in that yes, there will be a decrease in resources used; less carbon emissions, etc. ... I am the baby of the Baby Boomers, which is globally the largest generation, who will soon be not among you. I won't be working, I won't be paying taxes, I won't be consuming, I won't be producing. My salary at xyz company, they will not raise that salary offering after I am gone, because ... fewer people will be consuming their products, as those before me will not be here, as well.

I will leave with you my three millennial who along with their peers who, globally with technology (the Boomers created) are creating a sharing economy.

I wish all of you the best of luck with that one as u.s production and competition will never be as it was, however I trust people will be able to adapt and over come or, when in Rome ...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-28-2019, 12:48 AM
 
Location: Central Washington
1,663 posts, read 869,968 times
Reputation: 2941
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
They [migrants are people too] will work (become u.s. slaves like the rest of us) and they will pay their taxes, therefore they will be paying for the needed increase in programs that are already available in the u.s. that addresses this issue. Stop me if I'm wrong --- job creation? Oh wow, there's a
You are wrong. The majority of illegal aliens don't even have a high school education, and will cost much more than they will ever pay in taxes. The net cost of each illegal alien is estimated to be $65,292, not including any dependents. They bring no benefit, and compete with American workers for low skill jobs which are becoming increasingly scarce. https://cis.org/Report/Deportation-v...mmigrants-Stay


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
Correction, we need more young immigrants allowed in so at to repopulate dying towns; which are presently waiting in dentition centers all across the u.s. to be released.
Why do we have to repopulate dying towns? When a town dies there was a reason for it. If the town was viable, it wouldn't have died in the first place, so how would dumping a bunch of unskilled immigrants there change anything?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-28-2019, 01:17 AM
 
Location: USA
5,738 posts, read 5,426,527 times
Reputation: 3668
I'm a liberal and I'm all for isolationism: stop letting a lot of immigrants in, and stop stupid saber-rattling / d***-waving with Iran North Korea and whoever else is the geopolitical foe of the day / election cycle.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-28-2019, 04:03 AM
Status: "It Can't Rain All The Time" (set 17 hours ago)
 
Location: North Pacific
15,755 posts, read 7,558,709 times
Reputation: 2576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
They [migrants are people too] will work (become u.s. slaves like the rest of us) and they will pay their taxes, therefore they will be paying for the needed increase in programs that are already available in the u.s. that addresses this issue. Stop me if I'm wrong --- job creation? Oh wow, there's a
Quote:
Originally Posted by dozerbear View Post
You are wrong. The majority of illegal aliens don't even have a high school education, and will cost much more than they will ever pay in taxes. The net cost of each illegal alien is estimated to be $65,292, not including any dependents. They bring no benefit, and compete with American workers for low skill jobs which are becoming increasingly scarce. https://cis.org/Report/Deportation-v...mmigrants-Stay
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell
Correction, we need more young immigrants allowed in so at to repopulate dying towns; which are presently waiting in dentition centers all across the u.s. to be released.
Why do we have to repopulate dying towns? When a town dies there was a reason for it. If the town was viable, it wouldn't have died in the first place, so how would dumping a bunch of unskilled immigrants there change anything?
You should read reports a bit more thorough, also, I find your comments a bit short sighted ...
"It is also worth noting that illegal immigrants overall are significantly more educated than we reported in an earlier analysis, which focused only on illegal border-crossers."

So seeing that, quick search and present date:

U.S. unauthorized immigrants are more proficient in English, more educated than a decade ago

Education levels of U.S. immigrants are on the rise


Tesla had 4 cents in his pockets when he arrived from Serbia. Also look up investing in human capital, also look up immigrant entrepreneur to see how they have contributed to an increase in your over all standards of life, in the u.s. over the years.

Quote:
Why do we have to repopulate dying towns?
After the Confederates lost the war, the u.s. became a Centralized country and what that means to you is that when you pay your federal taxes, you are making a contribution to a distribution of funds to rural and small town u.s.a., that they possibly would not exist or have gov. public schools for education, had the u.s. remained a Decentralized country.

So rather than ask the question about dropping off unskilled (which they are just as skilled as those who already live in the u.s) to low population areas, you may want to ask, why are our tax dollars keeping those towns alive?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-28-2019, 04:09 AM
Status: "It Can't Rain All The Time" (set 17 hours ago)
 
Location: North Pacific
15,755 posts, read 7,558,709 times
Reputation: 2576
Quote:
Originally Posted by It'sAutomatic View Post
I'm a liberal and I'm all for isolationism: stop letting a lot of immigrants in, and stop stupid saber-rattling / d***-waving with Iran North Korea and whoever else is the geopolitical foe of the day / election cycle.
Trump Is Repeating the Mistakes of America’s Interwar Isolationists

"It is remarkable how current the transcript reads. In the age of Donald Trump, Americans are again divided over whether multilateral cooperation is consistent with national sovereignty. Until recently, this question seemed resolved. From Franklin D. Roosevelt through Barack Obama, 13 successive U.S. presidents embraced global leadership, upheld international institutions and managed an open, liberal world order. "


PS: Also look up isolationism during great depression era, good reading there too.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-28-2019, 04:54 AM
 
Location: Austin
15,590 posts, read 10,331,936 times
Reputation: 19420
I never wake up early, but after that democratic party debate last night I didn't sleep well and am up now. the policies advocated by the democratic party candidates last night in the debate are frightening.

I read this on politico this morning and it sums up my thoughts pretty well.

…..all of the candidates (except perhaps for Biden, whose half-hand raise was a masterstroke of noncommittalism) have put themselves clearly on the record for sharply liberalizing immigration, and none appears to be willing to say anything with any specificity about one question: Should there be any limit on who gets to come to the United States?

Is there room enough, are there jobs enough, is there health care funding enough, to accommodate everyone?

Right now, it seems clear that if either of the last two Democratic presidents had shown up Thursday night and advocated their positions from five or 20 years ago—the ones that helped them win a general election—they would have been booed off their own party's stage.



I don't have to watch any more debates. there are no moderate presidential candidates in the democratic party.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-28-2019, 05:45 AM
 
14,221 posts, read 6,927,960 times
Reputation: 6059
Quote:
Originally Posted by NigerianNightmare View Post
Well it isn't automatically a good thing but in developed countries it is certainly a good thing culturally and economically. More consumers= more money, more power etcetera. A personal example, Davido is a Nigerian artist, he was born and raised in Atlanta. Because of his millions of fans know this and recognize the various clothes he wears as well as the way he talks that is reminiscent of Atlanta, many Nigerians buy or consume the same things Davido has or pay more attention to things that he does, Atlanta grows on the world stage and maybe even gets some tourists spending money in the local economy. America as a whole grows on the world stage because one of the biggest artist in the world is from Atlanta. A better example is Yao-Ming and the growth of basketball in China and the revenue the NBA receives from China. Not only does immigration grow population over here leading to more of everything due to more consumers, but because of the soft power of immigration you can get stars who are homegrown getting support from their fathers homeland and get an out-sized economic boost because of it. American cities perform exceptionally well on the GDP ranking compared to their peers, why? Because each market is a country and if your country has more people a city like Fayetteville, Arkansas can become an economic powerhouse while a city twice or three times it size in a developed European country can't because Fayetteville's companies (Walmart) have access to at least 300 million Americans while the European company has access to only 10 million consumers, hence things like the EU get formed. Of course companies can become popular outside of their national borders, but this is in a situation where every country has it's own version of Walmart, then realistically which would be the most powerful Walmart, India's, China's and America's (not necessarily in that order) and India has insane linguistic diversity that could possible keep one Walmart from forming as regions where Hindi or English weren't dominant could have their own version of that.

Because America is the largest developed country and Japan is second, those two countries absolutely dominate the Company lists and all Americans benefit from that as an American company that is successful nationwide means more economically than in any other country in the world. China is quickly catching up but it's still decades away.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davido

This is also what people mean when they say Diversity is our Strength. People like to talk about the impact of say Latin American immigration in America, they never really talk about the reverse. Right now the biggest artists in America by far are Puerto Rican artists that do Reggaeton which is extremely popular throughout Latin America and gets billions of views. The soft power impact of these Americans on culture across Latin America is immense and only leads to growth in the American economy, when billions of non-Americans are consuming American media, on an American site (YouTube).
Where is the proof that countries with large populations do better in rankings of income, health, education etc? I have seen no such proof.

You talk about entertainment and the PR industry like that is the major backbone of an industrialized high tech economy. Its not. Its a very small fraction of it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top