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The Soviets did not know it was a passenger plane, it was anything but a "brutal aggression". It was self-defense deliberately distorted by the Americans:
Some say the Americans deliberately sacrificed those civilians in order to test the Soviet defense.
The Soviets were rather rational guys. If it weren't for them, WWIII would surely have happened, because Americans and Brits were both much less rational and responsible in their actions.
They knew it was a passenger type jet, but even the pilot was in the mind set that it could be a surveillance plane, as they use converted civilian aircraft for such things.
In any case, **** poor identification, and in my opinion, an over reaction even if it was a military plane. To shoot down a plane, even a military one, for just straying over into the territory, is absurd.
They knew it was a passenger type jet, but even the pilot was in the mind set that it could be a surveillance plane, as they use converted civilian aircraft for such things.
In any case, **** poor identification, and in my opinion, an over reaction even if it was a military plane. To shoot down a plane, even a military one, for just straying over into the territory, is absurd.
No, they did not know, surveillance technology was not nearly as good as today.
Nor was it an overreaction. They tried to contact that plane and make it leave repeatedly, but the plane did not respond or comply. I have read the communication log, it is out there on the Internet. The Soviets were patient, but eventually had to shoot it down.
Lol, they did have to work hard and things were not cheap nor free. The work week was six days a week. Soviet law required people to hold jobs and it was a "right" also. The housing options and job options often did not line up, creating absurd commutes for many people, with very little options otherwise. Work safety placed a priority on ensuring productivity was not hampered, not worker safety.
And this is also true . As I said, topic is huge. One correction though - 6 days a week was, I believe, till some time in ~70s. Then it became 5 days.
By the way, I was thinking on the topic of work in Soviet system vs any capitalist system.
Most people don't want to work - this is an obvious statement. So, then how to make them work? Here we are looking to the two approaches. Soviet one basically was: you work because you fear jail (law was saying something like if you don't work anywhere for 3 consecutive months, you were considered parasite, and go to jail. Not immediately, but eventually - if you keep offending). Capitalist system is basically this: if you don't work, you'll have no money for food and shelter and will die from starvation. Both systems are based on fear. Which fear is worse?
They knew it was a passenger type jet, but even the pilot was in the mind set that it could be a surveillance plane, as they use converted civilian aircraft for such things.
In any case, **** poor identification, and in my opinion, an over reaction even if it was a military plane. To shoot down a plane, even a military one, for just straying over into the territory, is absurd.
I tried to sit on my hands, but can't resist: so, according to you, if, say, NK military plane will be hovering over California, it'll be an absurd to shoot it down?
Lol, they did have to work hard and things were not cheap nor free. The work week was six days a week. Soviet law required people to hold jobs and it was a "right" also. The housing options and job options often did not line up, creating absurd commutes for many people, with very little options otherwise. Work safety placed a priority on ensuring productivity was not hampered, not worker safety.
I would agree with your assessment but I've talked to too many people from Soviet states that have a differing opinion....they may be nostalgic as someone mentioned but they speak highly of the old Soviet system.
I would note that the raist and hate mongering Law professor only hates whites that are Amewrican
“Every single person I have I [sic] asked in Central Asia (and Eastern Europe) over the past decade and a half has said life was better under the Soviets -- 100 percent,” O’Dell tweeted on Tuesday."
I guess one would have to go to Romania or such to find out....I can't say I know....and, remember, they are talking Soviets....so what are they saying?
Are they saying that life under the Soviets was better than life under "just some Putin influence" as is not the case in some of those places???
One would need a lot more information to suss out such a tweet.
It is fact that Putin and MANY Russians look to the Soviet Era as what they want to see reborn....and Stalin is becoming popular again. So Putin and the majority of Russians that support him are definitely not big into the Western Enlightenment or our style of capitalism.
Many Russians look for the return of the Soviet era because when it ended, the country become "those who have the gold make the rules" on a level unmatched by many other countries. As it stands now many of the former SU countries are pseudo democracy's that have ran their socialist courses. The top .01% has all the money and the rest live pretty insignificant lives packed into tiny cookie cutter apartments working multiple jobs to make ends meet. Meanwhile, a key bridge between towns fails and it's roadbed falls into the river. There is no money to fix it, so the masses must go 40km out of their way to the next bridge....but there is money for their "Czar" to purchase another vacation home on the black sea.....
The last Soviet hardliners was Stalin, about every reference to Soviet brutalities occurred under Stalin and before. Khrushchev started the destalinization of the USSR, Brezhnev came into power and under him, it was considered the golden age of the USSR, and you can see this in the culture and media at the time. Gorbachev continued the trend.
You apparently forgot about Yuri Andropov, aka the "Butcher of Budapest" for the way he crushed the Hungarian revolution in 1956, and he was also responsible for the response to the Prague Spring in 1968. Leonid Brezhnev certainly was no prize either, despite the detente of the early-mid 1970s. He started a massive arms buildup that eventually took about 13% of Soviet GNP, (US defense spending during the same period never exceeded 5.7% of GDP, and currently is 3.1%). He also rolled back some of Khrushchev's reforms, and oversaw the "Brezhnev Stagnation" that started around 1975.
Many Russians look for the return of the Soviet era because when it ended, the country become "those who have the gold make the rules" on a level unmatched by many other countries. As it stands now many of the former SU countries are pseudo democracy's that have ran their socialist courses. The top .01% has all the money and the rest live pretty insignificant lives packed into tiny cookie cutter apartments working multiple jobs to make ends meet. Meanwhile, a key bridge between towns fails and it's roadbed falls into the river. There is no money to fix it, so the masses must go 40km out of their way to the next bridge....but there is money for their "Czar" to purchase another vacation home on the black sea.....
Many Russians are doing fine. Living in small apartments is also typical of most other European and Asian cities. Most of the world tries to limit urban sprawl. Nor do most people need a big home to be happy.
When I moved to my current location, they showed me several apartments, and I opted for the smallest one, and I don't live in Moscow
Most people's lives are insignificant anywhere in the world, and the absurd concentration of wealth in the hands of a small elite is also typical of the West unfortunately. Same here in Portugal.
This thread puts on display how trendy it has become to dislike or despise America. Even when compared with the Soviet Union, a truly brutal nation of aggressors throughout its 70 year history we still find many posters literally siding with the Soviet Union. I realize many nowadays were not alive during the Cold War and have no memories of what happened but still we have history books, the internet etc. It is easy to learn of Soviet aggression and repression. Still these people work double time to find and exaggerate anything they can that makes America look bad. Many doing this are actually Americans themselves. I don’t get it and I never will. I will never understand how the millennial generation got this way, how they embraced values so contrary to those of our country. Even if these posters live in other western nations their views are largely contrary to their own national values as well. I fear this generation and what it will do when they really hold the reigns of power. God help us then.....we all may get to experience the values of socialism right here in the 21rst century.
No, they did not know, surveillance technology was not nearly as good as today.
Nor was it an overreaction. They tried to contact that plane and make it leave repeatedly, but the plane did not respond or comply. I have read the communication log, it is out there on the Internet. The Soviets were patient, but eventually had to shoot it down.
They did know, the pilot had a visual and identified it as a Boeing passenger jet, however, from his interview, he stated that he knew that passenger planes can be converted to militarily use for surveillance.
There was no reason to shoot it down, they did not have a positive ID on the type of plane, and they were not in a state of war, plus it was near a well established commercial air route. It was not a bomber nor a fighter plane, so the chances of it carrying weapons is nill. A huge over reaction to shoot down a plane like that, especially given its location and trajectory, out over the damn ocean, not like it was flying directly into a city.
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. As I said, topic is huge. One correction though - 6 days a week was, I believe, till some time in ~70s. Then it became 5 days.
