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Old 07-14-2019, 08:16 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,199,011 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
Was Madoff Wise? The Wolf of Wall Street?

If what you say is so true, why is it fact that Sociopaths make good CEO's?

How about Rick Scott? I'm fairly sure he's first generation. Made his money defrauding the taxpayer, being part of the ripping off the American people in general ("health" insurance) and now passing laws that benefit his investments and friends?

Can we all be like that? Is that a good thing for our country and society?

Dollars to donuts most of the new millionaires right at the time of the Great Recession crash were playing a lottery. They won it, we lost it.

A lot of money is made by privatizing gains and socializing losses. Surely you can see that? The Great Recession wiped out the complete net worth of tens of millions of Americans....effects still linger.

I have a different definition of "wise" then you do. Many others do too. If one makes money by making it so others don't, that's not wise at all.
New millionaires are being made off debt, not production in good part. That is not sustainable.

 
Old 07-14-2019, 08:22 AM
 
26,694 posts, read 14,565,372 times
Reputation: 8094
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastwardBound View Post
But, everyone is better off because people can start businesses and provide services and goods that we all need and require.

Capitalism is not perfect, but it does provide the best possible outcomes for human development and progress. As a utilitarian system, it has been the most powerful force to life tens of millions out of poverty, improve health and standard of living and bring development.

Socialism, as practiced in North Korea and Cuba with central planning and ownership is not the answer and clearly failed.

However, within a capitalist system, we obviously should have a safety net and social welfare system to assist those who do fall through the system, as well as rules to keep the free-market system working well.

When we hear people speak of European countries as socialist, that is a falsehood. For example, we should be referring to 'Scandinavian capitalism' because those systems are not socialist at all, having an overwhelmingly private economy with private banking and lending, private housing, etc.

Having a safety net is not socialism, but an integral part of advanced capitalism.
As long as your safety net is funded by voluntary donations; otherwise, you are just introducing slavery - you work, I enjoy the safety with your money.
 
Old 07-14-2019, 08:23 AM
 
26,694 posts, read 14,565,372 times
Reputation: 8094
Quote:
Originally Posted by newdixiegirl View Post
You don't have to direct this post to me. I'm no Ayn Rand fangirl.
You ought to be.
 
Old 07-14-2019, 08:24 AM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
37,177 posts, read 19,200,869 times
Reputation: 14900
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastwardBound View Post
The system under your arguments is still CAPITALISM and is certainly not socialism. The social democratic countries are capitalistic societies at their core, with overwhelming private ownership and control.

Cueball, your words, not mine. I have never advocated for a system to help the few. If you read what I wrote, I said that capitalism needs to include regulations to keep the system working smoothly as well as a social safety net. Social security and a universal health care system (which I have long advocated for) are not socialism, as socialism refers to an economic system, whereby private companies do not exist, and instead the economy is planned and controlled by the central government.

I don't believe Bernie and Warren are calling for such a system, but are calling for regulations and an increased safety net within capitalism. Turning to socialism would mean eliminating private enterprise, which is something only the very few radicals are advocating.
That is exactly what Bernie has been trying to tell you for the past forty years. Before Bernie, there was Eisenhower. Read their platforms side-by-side. They would have made great running mates.
 
Old 07-14-2019, 08:24 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,010 posts, read 44,824,472 times
Reputation: 13709
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
Was Madoff Wise? The Wolf of Wall Street?

If what you say is so true, why is it fact that Sociopaths make good CEO's?
ALL sociopaths make good CEOs? No. And therein lies your utter lack of understanding of the skills and knowledge it takes to make a good CEO.

Quote:
A lot of money is made by privatizing gains and socializing losses.
How so? Let's take the bank bailout for example... The bank bailout has been repaid and actually made a profit for the Fed Gov:


Quote:
The State of the Bailout

OUTFLOWS: $632 billion This includes money that has actually been spent, invested, or loaned.

INFLOWS: $740 billion Money returned and paid to Treasury as interest, dividends, fees or to repurchase their stock warrants.

...the government has realized a $107B profit as of Feb. 25, 2019.
https://projects.propublica.org/bailout/

What you're missing (perhaps it just flew right over your head ) is THIS...

The Federal Reserve created $2 trillion worth of QE out of thin air to buy F&F MBS. $1.56 trillion worth is STILL on the Federal Reserve's H.4.1. And it matters not one whit to the Federal Reserve if that's never paid back. Those MBS will just roll off the Federal Reserve's H.4.1 as they mature, paid or not. We'll never know because the Federal Reserve doesn't have to recognize or state losses. They just reduce/erase the line item on their H.4.1.

And that all happens WHY? Because that $2 trillion to buy F&F MBS was created with just key strokes and can be erased/deleted just the same without anyone losing any money. The only negative result is the QE used to buy the F&F MBS that contain mortgages that default and are never paid off can never be reined back in.

Oh, and just for grins... Tens of thousands of mortgage borrowers, if not more, will get their homes for free as this all continues to play out and their mortgage debt just rolls off the Federal Reserve's H.4.1, unpaid...

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/30/b...k-expires.html
 
Old 07-14-2019, 08:25 AM
 
26,694 posts, read 14,565,372 times
Reputation: 8094
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
So if a country of 320 Million has 200 Billionaires instead of 100, that specifically means that things are much better for everyone? It has almost ZERO to do with anything if Facebook mints 4 Billionaires or 10. Well, we can clean their pools, so there is that.
Yes, it means exactly that things are better.
 
Old 07-14-2019, 08:31 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,199,011 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
Yes, it means exactly that things are better.
The countries recent "wealth" has been built on debt. You really support that?
 
Old 07-14-2019, 08:33 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,010 posts, read 44,824,472 times
Reputation: 13709
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
New millionaires are being made off debt, not production in good part. That is not sustainable.
That is actually true, but begs the question... WHY are idiots taking on SO much debt? They go into debt to buy luxuries and wants, which they don't even have to have. Some begrudge the "rich," but idiots WILLINGLY go into unsustainable debt to VOLUNTARILY hand the "rich" that money.

Let's examine that a little further and take a look at a few corporations that have made their founders into billionaires...

Walmart. Their profit margin is only 3.1%, so no... they're not "endlessly greedy."

https://ycharts.com/companies/WMT/profit_margin

Many people just l-o-v-e to slam Walmart, but here's where the REAL problems are as far as earning profits by reaming the poor and middle class...

Apple's profit margin is 19.93%, 6.4 times higher than Walmart's.

https://ycharts.com/companies/AAPL/profit_margin

Google's (includes the Android OS and product/services spinoffs) profit margin is 18.32%, 5.9 times higher than Walmart's.

https://ycharts.com/companies/GOOG/profit_margin

If Apple and Google are so "endlessly greedy" (remember, their founders became billionaires), the obvious question is WHY does the middle class and below even buy Apple or Android products when by doing so they're quite obviously just voluntarily giving those "endlessy greedy" corporations excessive profits out of their own struggling lives and out of their own pockets, thereby VOLUNTARILY making their founders billionaires?
 
Old 07-14-2019, 08:36 AM
 
Location: Nashville, TN -
9,588 posts, read 5,842,106 times
Reputation: 11116
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
I see, you just want to demonize people over your vast generalizations.
I'm "demonizing" people? Because I state fact when I say that many adults don't read books? LOL.

I see. You choose to be dramatic over nothing. In a subforum in which there are way bigger things to get upset about.
 
Old 07-14-2019, 08:37 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,010 posts, read 44,824,472 times
Reputation: 13709
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
As long as your safety net is funded by voluntary donations; otherwise, you are just introducing slavery - you work, I enjoy the safety with your money.
This! This! 1,000 times THIS! ^
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