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Old 07-14-2019, 09:30 AM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,857 posts, read 17,253,023 times
Reputation: 14459

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Quote:
Originally Posted by J746NEW View Post
Yep.
The system people are preaching cannot work beyond the individual level.
If everyone is a capitalist owner running a business, who is going to do all the work?
Uh, capitalists who choose to sell their labor?


 
Old 07-14-2019, 09:59 AM
 
Location: Denver metro
1,225 posts, read 3,219,974 times
Reputation: 2301
I learned everything I needed to know about "capitalism" by growing up in the 80s and 90s. I'm in my mid 30s now.

This unregulated environment led to the "booming economy" that we saw in the 90s and recovering economy after the recession of the early 00s, along with the emergence of the "keeping up with the Jones" lifestyle. Miserable people living in huge homes in the suburbs, taking on ridiculous amounts of credit card debt and driving fancy cars, trying to keep up appearances. Encouraging kids to go to college and taking on massive amounts of debt in order to get a high paying job so they could buy all the "stuff" that would supposedly make them happy.

Fast forward to 2007/2008 and everything changed. The façade was exposed. Many people, including myself, graduated into an economy that didn't live up to its promise. The lie that we had been told for more than 20 years was shown for what it was.

Fast forward another decade and people are falling for the same lies once again. Americans are slow to learn.

In my observation, my generation saw that money does not buy happiness. Many of us saw the stress and superficial culture that this attitude led to for our parents' generation and have no intention to do the same. My generation is also much more well traveled than our parents were at our age. Many have been to countries in Europe, Canada, etc. and realize that although some other first world countries may have less material wealth, they are wealthier in many other ways. Take northern European countries for example. Many families live in smaller homes/apartments, drive less (better public transportation), buy fewer status symbols, etc. They may pay more in taxes however, people in these countries also have access to quality healthcare, better nutrition (you barely see any preservatives on food labels in Europe, while many labels in USA look like a novel), lower stress levels, more focus on family, summer "holidays" that usually last 6 weeks or more, less drug abuse and alcoholism, more open minded attitudes about sex, etc.

I'm not saying that these societies are perfect by any means, but IMO, it beats this ridiculous political climate we currently have in the US by a landslide.

It's not that young people aren't educated about capitalism. We aren't ignorant. It's just that we've seen what it is all about and are demanding a country that doesn't go so far in that direction. Even a more balanced economic system like what we had in the 60s/70s would be reasonable.

If that makes me a socialist, so be it. It isn't a dirty word.
 
Old 07-14-2019, 10:09 AM
 
26,694 posts, read 14,483,674 times
Reputation: 8094
Quote:
Originally Posted by downtownnola View Post
I learned everything I needed to know about "capitalism" by growing up in the 80s and 90s. I'm in my mid 30s now.

This unregulated environment led to the "booming economy" that we saw in the 90s and recovering economy after the recession of the early 00s, along with the emergence of the "keeping up with the Jones" lifestyle. Miserable people living in huge homes in the suburbs, taking on ridiculous amounts of credit card debt and driving fancy cars, trying to keep up appearances. Encouraging kids to go to college and taking on massive amounts of debt in order to get a high paying job so they could buy all the "stuff" that would supposedly make them happy.

Fast forward to 2007/2008 and everything changed. The façade was exposed. Many people, including myself, graduated into an economy that didn't live up to its promise. The lie that we had been told for more than 20 years was shown for what it was.

Fast forward another decade and people are falling for the same lies once again. Americans are slow to learn.

In my observation, my generation saw that money does not buy happiness. Many of us saw the stress and superficial culture that this attitude led to for our parents' generation and have no intention to do the same. My generation is also much more well traveled than our parents were at our age. Many have been to countries in Europe, Canada, etc. and realize that although some other first world countries may have less material wealth, they are wealthier in many other ways. Take northern European countries for example. Many families live in smaller homes/apartments, drive less (better public transportation), buy fewer status symbols, etc. They may pay more in taxes however, people in these countries also have access to quality healthcare, better nutrition (you barely see any preservatives on food labels in Europe, while many labels in USA look like a novel), lower stress levels, more focus on family, summer "holidays" that usually last 6 weeks or more, less drug abuse and alcoholism, more open minded attitudes about sex, etc.

I'm not saying that these societies are perfect by any means, but IMO, it beats this ridiculous political climate we currently have in the US by a landslide.

It's not that young people aren't educated about capitalism. We aren't ignorant. It's just that we've seen what it is all about and are demanding a country that doesn't go so far in that direction. Even a more balanced economic system like what we had in the 60s/70s would be reasonable.

If that makes me a socialist, so be it. It isn't a dirty word.
Everything you described was caused by socialism (statism more precisely), not capitalism. Every economy downturn was caused by the government attempting to control people.

If you enjoy being a slave master, socialism is your best friend.
 
Old 07-14-2019, 10:12 AM
 
5,428 posts, read 4,421,022 times
Reputation: 7258
Capitalism is the greatest economic system that has ever been created. Capitalism provides incentive for people to achieve. Achievement is what creates value. I learned in high school about Adam Smith's Invisible Hand in Economics class in high school. Later, in college, I was introduced to Milton Friedman. I believe in capitalism, free markets, and limited government.

Why would the virtues of capitalism be taught in K-12 public schools? K-12 public schools are little more than Marxist indoctrination day care centers, many of which are underfunded day care centers. K-12 educators often have a leftist worldview. Public universities are taught by leftist PhDs.

The internet evens out the field. Access to information is easier. The youth who are intellectual curious do not have to rely upon those with Marxist worldviews for information. If they seek out information, the objective standard of what capitalism has achieved and does accomplish for a culture will win out.
 
Old 07-14-2019, 10:36 AM
 
45,676 posts, read 23,861,756 times
Reputation: 15559
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
Everything you described was caused by socialism (statism more precisely), not capitalism. Every economy downturn was caused by the government attempting to control people.

If you enjoy being a slave master, socialism is your best friend.
That's an over simplistic view of the issues.

All those policies that allowed banks -- corporate America to take advantage of people by encouraging them to get into debt weren't purely socialist programs.

They were corporations who wanted to maximize their profits and take whoever's money.

The implication is that the last crash was because of 'poor' people who should never have been allowed to buy a house.

BULL to that. What market was hit hardest in many cities -- the upper end. I know in my hood -- the folks who lost the most were conservatives who thought it was a great capitalist move to use the credit offered up. When the economy crashed, their house wasn't worth what they owed and they couldn't sell their house. ( full disclosure -- that was my experience because I lived in a conservative upper middle class neighborhood). I was able to buy a foreclosure in a high end neighborhood because some conservative capitalist thought it was to owe more than your assets. Thank you.

So your view that it was socialist policies is not spot on.

Those socialist policies -- may have had some intent to help 'poor' people -- but the final product was policies to help corporate America maximize their profits...which is as capitalist as you can get.
 
Old 07-14-2019, 10:38 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 43,945,307 times
Reputation: 17189
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ312 View Post
Capitalism is the greatest economic system that has ever been created.
Then why does no one actually practice it?
 
Old 07-14-2019, 10:40 AM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,857 posts, read 17,253,023 times
Reputation: 14459
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ312 View Post
Capitalism is the greatest economic system that has ever been created. Capitalism provides incentive for people to achieve. Achievement is what creates value. I learned in high school about Adam Smith's Invisible Hand in Economics class in high school. Later, in college, I was introduced to Milton Friedman. I believe in capitalism, free markets, and limited government.

Why would the virtues of capitalism be taught in K-12 public schools? K-12 public schools are little more than Marxist indoctrination day care centers, many of which are underfunded day care centers. K-12 educators often have a leftist worldview. Public universities are taught by leftist PhDs.

The internet evens out the field. Access to information is easier. The youth who are intellectual curious do not have to rely upon those with Marxist worldviews for information. If they seek out information, the objective standard of what capitalism has achieved and does accomplish for a culture will win out.
Capitalism wasn't "created". It's the default setting of a human being at birth. You enter impoverished and under no obligation/contract (though the statists will argue you've signed the Social Contract). How you proceed from there is based on voluntary exchanges over the course of your life.

Well, this is how it would be if we didn't have Marxists running around putting guns to heads.
 
Old 07-14-2019, 10:43 AM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,857 posts, read 17,253,023 times
Reputation: 14459
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Then why does no one actually practice it?
It can't coexist with statism. As long as the majority of people believe in the validity of the Social Contract which is the basis for statism then capitalism can't exist.
 
Old 07-14-2019, 11:04 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 43,945,307 times
Reputation: 17189
Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
It can't coexist with statism. As long as the majority of people believe in the validity of the Social Contract which is the basis for statism then capitalism can't exist.
So why are we even discussing something that isn't going to work?
 
Old 07-14-2019, 11:09 AM
 
6,389 posts, read 4,088,272 times
Reputation: 8237
Quote:
Originally Posted by J746NEW View Post
Yep.
The system people are preaching cannot work beyond the individual level.
If everyone is a capitalist owner running a business, who is going to do all the work?
This may surprise you, but capitalists work, too. My husband and I work our own business of buying distressed properties and rehabbing them. We do some work ourselves, like laying down new flooring and stuff. Some work we hire contractors, who also own their own contracting business. And they in turn hire sub contractors to do certain work.

Who told you capitalists don't do any work?
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