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Old 07-30-2019, 10:00 AM
 
4,699 posts, read 4,057,907 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by English Dave View Post
Haaaaaaaaaaaaa har........ Now, you have made my day, you really have. The EU will send in the army? Whose army, would that be then? Inform me. The EU doesn't have an army.

So, you think some French soldiers? Maybe some Italians? On Irish soil, trying to stop the IRA? Now, that would be real interesting to see.

The Irish government would collapse if they allowed one foreign soldier on Irish soil. There would be riots.

Think again.
As you can see in chart below, EU has a lot of military cooperation even though it is not called the EU army. An active conflict on the Irish-UK border will be considered extremly important for the CSDP.

The Irish government will not collapse, in fact they will be the ones inviting them, the paramilitary groups will be despised by both Ireland and North Ireland because they kill civilians and everyone will agree that we should stop them.

Of course this is just a thought exercise, those paramilitary sniper groups doesn't exist. Maybe we will see a lone terrorist, which the police will deal with.




Last edited by Camlon; 07-30-2019 at 10:15 AM..

 
Old 07-30-2019, 10:11 AM
 
Location: England
26,272 posts, read 8,403,600 times
Reputation: 31335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
Europe has a lot of military cooperation even though it is not called the EU army.

The Irish government will not collapse, in fact they will be the ones inviting them, the paramilitary groups will be despised by both Ireland and North Ireland because they kill civilians and everyone will agree that we should stop them.

Of course this is just a thought exercise, those paramilitary sniper groups doesn't exist. Maybe we will see a lone terrorist, and the police will deal with that.
The Irish government will invite foreign soldiers to fight the IRA? I can't make my mind up if you're just naive, or maybe very young. Have you any idea what went on in Ireland for going on 30 years of fighting?

Soldiers and civilians slaughtered. The Irish government will not invite one single foreign soldier onto Irish soil. You think the IRA are a thing of the past? Put some foreign soldiers into Ireland, and see what happens.
 
Old 07-30-2019, 10:28 AM
 
4,699 posts, read 4,057,907 times
Reputation: 2483
Quote:
Originally Posted by English Dave View Post
The Irish government will invite foreign soldiers to fight the IRA? I can't make my mind up if you're just naive, or maybe very young. Have you any idea what went on in Ireland for going on 30 years of fighting?

Soldiers and civilians slaughtered. The Irish government will not invite one single foreign soldier onto Irish soil. You think the IRA are a thing of the past? Put some foreign soldiers into Ireland, and see what happens.
What exactly do you expect to happen if for some reason IRA groups start killing civilians at the border, and military helicopters from the EU help Ireland track them down.

There are not unlimited amount of people willing to fight for the IRA, and has access to military weapons. We don't live in the 70s anymore, they won't be able to hide.

The public will of course not support some terrorists who kill innocent civilians, there will be mass protests denouncing the IRA.
 
Old 07-30-2019, 10:38 AM
 
Location: England
26,272 posts, read 8,403,600 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
What exactly do you expect to happen if for some reason IRA groups start killing civilians at the border, and military helicopters from the EU help Ireland track them down.

There are not unlimited amount of people willing to fight for the IRA, and has access to military weapons. We don't live in the 70s anymore, they won't be able to hide.

The public will of course not support some terrorists who kill innocent civilians, there will be mass protests denouncing the IRA.
Military helicopters from the EU? I guess I'm finished talking with you on this subject. Study some Irish history, on the IRA not from the 70s, but from the 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, and into the 60s. Then take a look at the 80s and 90s.

There will not be any foreign soldiers, helicopters, or anything else of that kind on Irish soil. If the EU try and put up controls at the border, then it will be carnage. It is not going to happen.
 
Old 07-30-2019, 10:41 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,866 posts, read 46,504,056 times
Reputation: 18520
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World View Post


I agree that would be the nuclear option, as would reviewing our relationship with Europe in terms of defence.

The EU not negotiatring a trade deal would also be a nuclear option, as indeed would applying tariffs on each others good and could lead to millions of job losses in Europe as well as the UK, indeed Germany would be particuarly badly effected and it could cause a Europe wide recession.

However in the end it's elected politicians in the UK abd Europe that will pay the price of unlected Breussels bureaucrats, and it will be the EU that those who lose their jobs will be pointing at and more new populist Anti-EU politicians and leaders could well be the end result.

In terms of the current leaders, Macron is finished and needn't bother even standing in another election, as his days are numbered, whilst Merkel is stepping down, whilst the EU is increasingly disliked across Europe and increasingly divided, the South and countries like Greece were hung out to dry by the Euro crisis, the East wants no part of EU immigration and the Scandinavian countries have always been wary of the EU.

Even in France you have the rise of figures such as Marine Le Pen, and the rise of nationalist parties such as the AfD in Germany.

As Nigel Frage stated, every country in Europe now has it's own Nigel Farage.

TBH - the EU is gradually destroying itself, it's just to blind to even see it and the more arrogant the EU becomes the more it destroys itself.

French military nails its colours to Marine Le Pen's mast - Irish Times

Macron loses EU elections to Marine Le Pen's far-right party - Irish Times

Germany's Far-Right AfD Becomes Strongest Party in Regional Poll - Bloomberg

Salvini's far-right party tops Italy's EU election polls | Politics | The Guardian

The Far Right Is a Growing Threat in Greece | The Nation

EU parliament votes to punish Hungary over 'breaches' of core values - BBC News

Matteo Salvini says Italy and Poland could build new Europe | The Guardian

People react differently once the figure it out, that they have been viewed as Property of the State.
 
Old 07-30-2019, 11:14 AM
 
4,699 posts, read 4,057,907 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by English Dave View Post
Military helicopters from the EU? I guess I'm finished talking with you on this subject. Study some Irish history, on the IRA not from the 70s, but from the 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, and into the 60s. Then take a look at the 80s and 90s.

There will not be any foreign soldiers, helicopters, or anything else of that kind on Irish soil. If the EU try and put up controls at the border, then it will be carnage. It is not going to happen.
You have your mind stuck in the past. That they struggled 50 years ago does not mean they will struggle today. A lot of things have changed the last 50 years. Ireland is much more integrated into the EU, Ireland has gone from being one of the poorest countries in western europe to one of the richest, Ireland has taken in lots of immigrants from the EU and internet has made it possible to see the victims of any terrorism. Its not the same country anymore, IRA will get nowhere today.

But please answer these question.
1. Where do these IRA groups get their training from and who.are they? The original IRA groups are old, so you must be talking about some young new groups.
2. How do they get access to military weapons?
3. How are they going to cause a carnage, when they are no match for the military?
4. How are they going to find new people and weapons, once the arrests and crackdown of illegal weapons start? Social media will reveal who they are connected to.

The idea that EU will not enforce its own borders because they are scared of the IRA is absurd. The worst case i can imagine happen is a few IRA terrorist attacks that will be universally condemned.

Last edited by Camlon; 07-30-2019 at 11:33 AM..
 
Old 07-30-2019, 11:34 AM
 
Location: England
26,272 posts, read 8,403,600 times
Reputation: 31335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
You have your mind stuck in the past. That they struggled 50 years ago does not mean they will struggle today. A lot of things have changed the last 50 years.

But please answer these question.
1. Where do these IRA groups get their training from and who.are they? The original IRA groups are old, so you must be talking about some young new groups.
2. How do they get access to military weapons?
3. How are they going to cause a carnage, when they are no match for the military?
4. How are they going to find new people and weapons, once the arrests and crackdown of illegal weapons start? Social media will reveal who they are connected to.

The idea that EU will not enforce its own borders because they are scared of the IRA is absurd. The worst case i can imagine happen is a few IRA terrorist attacks that will be universally condemned.
You know what one of the major problems the British army had in dealing with the IRA? Sympathy and help from within the Irish government.

Sinn Fein are the political arm of the IRA. Right now, they're playing politics. You bring in border controls, especially using foreign soldiers, there will be carnage.

As I told you, the IRA goes back almost a hundred years. They are never truly gone for good. The end to violence only came 20 years ago. Plenty of those guys are young enough to train new recruits.

Their military weapons were not taken away from them after the Good Friday agreement. They disarmed themselves, and only they know where those weapons are. You can bet they were well oiled, and are kept safe and sound.

No match for the military? They don't play by the rules of war, and many in the community support them, and protect them. They did then, and they would do now.

Arrests and crackdowns? The British army did all that. Even imprisoned without trial. You know anything about the Maze prison, and the dirty protest?

Once again, the EU has no army. No helicopters. No tanks.

You are living in cloud cuckoo land. Now, that really is my last comment on this issue with you.
 
Old 07-30-2019, 11:50 AM
 
4,699 posts, read 4,057,907 times
Reputation: 2483
Quote:
Originally Posted by English Dave View Post
You know what one of the major problems the British army had in dealing with the IRA? Sympathy and help from within the Irish government.

No match for the military? They don't play by the rules of war, and many in the community support them, and protect them. They did then, and they would do now.
Get your head out of the 70s, we don't live in the 70s anymore. An IRA uprising will get zero political support once the images on social media comes out.

It will also get no support from the communities. The people they kill are fathers, mothers and kids, and dead pictures of them will be circulating on social media. It will instead lead to an incredible amount of anger towards the IRA. There will protests against the IRA across the country, and it is IRA who needs to hide who they are from the community.

Quote:
Arrests and crackdowns? The British army did all that. Even imprisoned without trial. You know anything about the Maze prison, and the dirty protest?
Except we don't live in the 70s. When you catch a person today, you will also find their social media activity. That will allow the irish police to make further arrests and find more illegal weapons. The more organized they are, the easier it is to catch them and confiscate their weapons.

Even if they have hidden the weapons somewhere, they will never be able to dig it up without someone noticing them, they will never be able to train recruit without getting noticed, and no one new will join such groups either just because of some stupid border controls.

Quote:
Originally Posted by English Dave View Post
Once again, the EU has no army. No helicopters. No tanks.
That is nonsense, and you know it. EU has plenty of military cooperation.

Just because they don't call it EU army, does not mean that EU countries are islands that don't do anything together militarily. If your absurd visions happen and IRA rise up (they won't) then yes EU will help Ireland militarily because it is considered a military conflict on the EU border. The reason you haven't seen it before, it because no such thing has happened in recent history. The closest is Ukraine, but that is not an EU country and it is much harder to deal with because it is supported by Russia.

EU will not back down from border controls because they are afraid of an IRA uprising. You need to get back to the reality, in reality both top EU-politicans and top irish politicans have said there will be a hard border if no deal happens. They are not lying to you.

Last edited by Camlon; 07-30-2019 at 12:53 PM..
 
Old 07-31-2019, 06:31 AM
 
52,433 posts, read 26,518,232 times
Reputation: 21097
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
No, I mean Labour, Liberal Democrats and a few rebel tories bring down the government. Labour and Liberal Democrats benefit by having Farage taking votes from conservatives. Most conservatives have strong incentives to support the government, but not all.
Two problems with that. Nobody wants Jeremy Corbyn as PM.



Second, I don't believe there is a procedure where just a "few MPs" could break from their party to take down the government. Maybe you could explain that one further.
 
Old 07-31-2019, 06:33 AM
 
52,433 posts, read 26,518,232 times
Reputation: 21097
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
...
Things have changed quite a lot since there were Irish paramilitaries. And if were to happen, EU will send in the army. Some snipers are no match for a modern military....
What "EU" army are you talking about?
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