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View Poll Results: Do you support Warren's proposal that we first have to be attacked with nukes before we can use them
Yes, we should announce to the world we won't use a nuke until one is first used on us 31 27.93%
No, we shouldn't handcuff ourselves saying a city first has to be destroyed before we can use our most powerful weapons 80 72.07%
Voters: 111. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-03-2019, 07:22 PM
 
33,387 posts, read 34,837,332 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw335xi View Post
.

During the recent debate, Warren said she would sign a pledge to not use a nuclear weapon unless one is used on us first.

This to me is a deal breaker... it's like having a gun and pledging you will never shoot unless you get shot first. Why do we need to see NYC blown up before we can protect ourselves?

.

this is an empty pledge, more symbolic than substantial. the only US president, in fact the ONLY world leader that has used a nuke in anger was truman, and he did that to end a war.
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Old 08-03-2019, 07:29 PM
 
4,195 posts, read 1,600,389 times
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this question would have been uneeded generations ago...but after bush/Cheney..its vary sad
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Old 08-03-2019, 07:30 PM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
38,642 posts, read 26,374,838 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neutrino78x View Post
China has no intention of starting a nuclear war, either. (You do realize that they have several hundred strategic nuclear warheads as well, right? and they also have the equivalent of SSBN submarines, as we do?) The primary purpose of nuclear arms is to prevent war through deterrence.

I know this because I was a submariner (although nothing I've said is classified). If you think the purpose of having nuclear weapons is start a nuclear war, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Yes, we have a first strike capability. The ability to retaliate implies a first strike capability. But no, we have no intention of using it. That would be stupid, because our country would be destroyed in retaliation.

Yeah dig dong, and by promising to not go first, you eliminate the deterrent effect.
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Old 08-03-2019, 07:58 PM
 
Location: Free From The Oppressive State
30,253 posts, read 23,733,496 times
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I'm floored by how naive some people are. You never reveal your hand - some things don't need to be said, because not everyone on this planet gives a damn about naive people.
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Old 08-03-2019, 08:01 PM
 
Location: SE Asia
16,236 posts, read 5,879,282 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey View Post
Yeah dig dong, and by promising to not go first, you eliminate the deterrent effect.
Actually the detergent effect is the ability to retaliate even after a first strike. That is why we have ICBMs, Bombers, and the Ohio class Submarine. No matter how good another country is, they can't get them all at once.
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Old 08-03-2019, 08:42 PM
 
24,407 posts, read 26,951,108 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boneyard1962 View Post
Actually the detergent effect is the ability to retaliate even after a first strike. That is why we have ICBMs, Bombers, and the Ohio class Submarine. No matter how good another country is, they can't get them all at once.
A deterrent is to prevent the thing from ever happening...


That's like saying the deterrent of owning a gun is if someone shoots you in the head you have the ability to retaliate lol.
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Old 08-03-2019, 08:45 PM
 
Location: SE Asia
16,236 posts, read 5,879,282 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw335xi View Post
A deterrent is to prevent the thing from ever happening...


That's like saying the deterrent of owning a gun is if someone shoots you in the head you have the ability to retaliate lol.
The deterrent is that no matter what you will pay for it. Thats what MAD was all about. Mutually assured destruction. Meaning no matter who shoots first both die. Thats why it is a deterrent. It deters someone from taking the risk.
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Old 08-03-2019, 08:47 PM
 
24,407 posts, read 26,951,108 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boneyard1962 View Post
The deterrent is that no matter what you will pay for it. Thats what MAD was all about. Mutually assured destruction. Meaning no matter who shoots first both die. Thats why it is a deterrent. It deters someone from taking the risk.

A deterrent of building a mass amount of nukes is that we might use our nukes before you finish building them or exporting them. It's stupid to tie your hands together.
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Old 08-03-2019, 08:51 PM
 
7,269 posts, read 4,212,399 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow View Post
I'm floored by how naive some people are. You never reveal your hand - some things don't need to be said, because not everyone on this planet gives a damn about naive people.

Really. I can't believe 21 people voted with Warren.
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Old 08-03-2019, 08:53 PM
 
Location: SE Asia
16,236 posts, read 5,879,282 times
Reputation: 9117
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw335xi View Post
A deterrent of building a mass amount of nukes is that we might use our nukes before you finish building them or exporting them. It's stupid to tie your hands together.
You miss the point of MAD. Mutually assured destruction.

Its not that we might use them before you can. It's that no matter what, we will use them and effectively no matter what, if you use yours. You have no power to stop it.

Ok to use your analogy of head shot.

The deterrent is We have a sniper hidden that you can't possibly defend against. If you shoot me in the head, my sniper will kill you and you can't do anything about it. That is a deterrent.

The deterrent can be, I have a sniper. I will use my sniper first, if you annoy me. Yes that can be a deterrent.

In the case of our nukes the deterrent is and has been for decades, we can and will retaliate and destroy you and all your allies, because we have enough assets that you can't possible eliminate them all. That is what MAD is all about.
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