The mentally ill, and weapons (England, prison, security, community)

[Mircea]

Originally Posted by rkcarguy

Lets put the party squabbling aside for the moment...to some degree...and look at the real problem. The Reagan administration "changed" the ways mental institutions were funded, passing the responsibility onto the states along with (here's the catch) a largely reduced budget to work with.

A lot of ignorance here.

The federal government should never have been funding it in the first place.

And, NAMI and mental health advocates actually thank Reagan for doing what he did rather than condemning him.

Why do they thank Reagan?

Because what Reagan did coerced changes in the mental health field; changes that were both positive and beneficial for all people.

Mental health professionals were forced to re-evaluate the way they treat the mentally ill.

The mentally ill had no say in their own treatment. They were told to shut up and do what they were told to do. Not any more thanks to Reagan. Now the mentally ill have a voice and are no longer ignored. The mentally ill tell their providers their short-term and long-term goals, and mental health providers construct a treatment plan to assist the mentally ill to achieve their goals. As a result, the mentally ill are productive instead of being leeches.

The mentally ill were forced to learn how to cope in the Real Worldâ„¢.

Yes, it's true that many of the mentally ill learned all the wrong coping techniques, with some self-medicating with alcohol or drugs, but they learned to cope nonetheless. Thanks to Reagan, the mentally ill are now taught proper coping techniques so that they can function on a higher level and without resorting to alcohol or drugs. As a result, the mentally ill are productive instead of being leeches.

Reagan's actions also spurred clinical research to effectively treat mental illnesses as well as pharmacological research to develop new drugs to treat mental illnesses.

Before Reagan, the mentally ill were either institutionalized or like Valley of Dolls they just threw pills like Valium at you and told you to shut up and get lost. Mental health professionals weren't even remotely interested in why women might need Valium and didn't give a damn. Now, the mentally ill are educated about their illness, its cause, how it manifests, its symptoms, how it affects you, how it affects others, what medications are available and what treatments are available. You now have a variety of medications and most do not have the debilitating side-effects that earlier medications had.

Reagan also helped eliminate the stigma associated with mental illness, so that instead of ignoring it and sweeping it under the rug we now accept it.

So, thanks to Reagan, everybody wins.

Originally Posted by rkcarguy

Veterans come back from war after watching their army buddy explode into hamburger and fall into substance abuse and deal with PTSD, and aren't cared for or treated.

In the vernacular, that's called a whopper lie. Your claim is 100% false.

I'm a combat veteran of two conflicts. I was diagnosed with PTSD. There are treatment programs both at VA medical centers and privately. I have been treated. I went through the 7-week inpatient program with my brothers from New York, Wisconsin, Illinois, Ohio and North Carolina (where my room-mate was from).

Wealth, higher wages and mental illness all have one thing in common: Wanting.

You have to want to build wealth and the majority of people simply don't want to do that, because it is a lot of work and does often require some sacrifice.

You have to want to be trained, certified or educated in a field to get higher wages and paying $125 for a MIG/TIG welding course to increase wages from $7.25/hour to $18/hour is just way too much effort for some people, especially if they have to give up beer, dope, gambling and tattoos for few weeks to save up the money.

Mental illness is the same way. You have to want to be treated and some people don't wanna.

I know that, because a guy left after two days of the PTSD in-patient treatment program. He didn't like it, thought it was BS, didn't want to be there and was rude and disruptive to the other 11 of us, so he left.

That's unfortunate, because there were other veterans who really wanted to be there for treatment but couldn't because he took up and wasted a slot.

You don't really want people like that around. If and when he finally decides he wants treatment, he'll be back and so long as he's not homeless or violent or committing crimes, it's his business and not yours and if he suffers it's his own choosing.

[Wabujitsu]

This can be condensed down to something really simple. In order to have rights taken away, in order to be involuntarily committed to a mental institution, in order to ban a person’s right to firearm ownership, a person has to DO something wrong, dangerous, or self-destructive, or clearly express the motivation and have the means to do so.

If we start legislating via crystal ball in our country, we are doomed to a downhill slide into severe Draconianism.

As someone previously said, you cannot have freedoms without risks.

[BentBow]

Natural Law, does not let the weak & the freaks survive to multiply and bring down the species.

[sammy87]

It becomes a very slippery slope when the govt decides what your mental capacity is and what rights you are entitled to. While I agree, a lot of people should not have access to fire arms, the question is who is to make that decision? What comes next? 1st Amendment? Right to have children?

[natalie469]

Originally Posted by Jimbo302

What kind of joke is this? Bipolar disorder is well known to manifest itself in violent ways.

Nope.

[StillwaterTownie]

Originally Posted by Brave New World

Actually most people in the old Asylums were no danger to anyone and most institutions were not really that secure apart from a wall and a gate.

Oh, there were definitely a number of them in asylums for threatening their family members with serious harm or death.

[Jimbo302]

Originally Posted by natalie469

Nope.

Your single word opinion is not much of a rebuttal against the actual experiences of many people and thier dealings with bipolar rage, it's a plain fact.
The first result of an internet search :

"Although most psychiatric patients are not violent, serious mental illness is associated with increased risk of violent behavior. ... The evidence suggests that the risk of violence is greater in bipolar disorder than in schizophrenia. Most of the violence in bipolar disorder occurs during the manic phase."

[BentBow]

Most of the mentally ill were taken from the genepool, when the Laws of Nature ran the show, in the USA..

[TamaraSavannah]

Originally Posted by cuebald

It's not the mental health, even though Trump and the GOP cut funding and recversed Obama's decision that the mentally ill couldn't buy guns.

It's the guns, It has always been the guns, it will always be the guns. Don't allow yourself to be gaslighted.

And when it is not the guns, then it will be something else.



I can't give examples of what other credible means there because I don't want to give the opposing force ideas. Believe me, however, as a researcher, there are plenty of ways for one person to off a bunch of others. Maybe it will only work once for one person and the next person will have to find another way, but there are plenty of means out there.

[1AngryTaxPayer]

Originally Posted by mkpunk

Ok then, high capacity magazines.

Ok then, drum magazines. A standard mag was never considered high cap.