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Old 08-21-2019, 04:00 PM
 
Location: Haiku
7,132 posts, read 4,764,363 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post

One naturally occurring source of CO2 would be respiration. Please point to the calculations accounting for all CO2 created via the respiration of all organisms on the planet.
First of all the biomass of plant life far exceeds the biomass of all other life on earth including animals and bacteria. The biomass of bacteria is much larger than that of animals. Bacteria respirate and will be a larger source of CO2 than will animals. I cannot point you to the calculation but somebody has done it for bacteria as it appears on this graphic:



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon...rbon_cycle.jpg
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Old 08-21-2019, 04:02 PM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
14,848 posts, read 8,202,687 times
Reputation: 4590
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
Much harder to buy off the all the scientist though.
Who pays the scientists? How do you become a scientist? How do you get published in a scientific journal?


We have two sets of scientists, government scientists paid and supported by governments and their affiliates. And corporate scientists who are paid and supported by corporations and other special-interests.

And shockingly the corporate scientists and the government scientists rarely agree.

Last edited by Redshadowz; 08-21-2019 at 05:22 PM..
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Old 08-21-2019, 04:17 PM
 
Location: CO/UT/AZ/NM Catch me if you can!
6,926 posts, read 6,931,897 times
Reputation: 16509
Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
I'm not seeing where they are calculating the exact amount of CO2 produced naturally.

One naturally occurring source of CO2 would be respiration. Please point to the calculations accounting for all CO2 created via the respiration of all organisms on the planet.
Here you go:

The climatologists at Skeptical Science answered this question decades ago. Warning: The link below includes the actual scientific calculations and data. I'm sure you'll study it intently. Of course you will!


What is causing the increase in atmospheric CO2?

What The Science Says:
There are many lines of evidence which clearly show that the atmospheric CO2 increase is caused by humans. The clearest of these is simple accounting - humans are emitting CO2 at a rate twice as fast as the atmospheric increase (natural sinks are absorbing the other half). There is no question whatsoever that the CO2 increase is human-caused. This is settled science.


Simple Accounting
The easiest way to prove that the atmospheric CO2 increase is man-made is through a simple accounting approach (i.e. see Cawley 2011).
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Old 08-21-2019, 04:17 PM
 
8,060 posts, read 3,941,959 times
Reputation: 5356
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
They do not need to....The CO2 produced by burning fossil fuels contains only carbon-12...All that is needed is to measure the percentage of carbon-12 in the atmosphere... The rest is natural.
Not.Even.Close!

Fossil fuels contain both carbon-12 and carbon-13.

You're on the right path, but nowhere near the ballpark... try again.
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Old 08-21-2019, 04:30 PM
 
Location: CO/UT/AZ/NM Catch me if you can!
6,926 posts, read 6,931,897 times
Reputation: 16509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultor View Post
Not.Even.Close!

Fossil fuels contain both carbon-12 and carbon-13.

You're on the right path, but nowhere near the ballpark... try again.
A reply from the ballpark:

We know that fossil fuel burning and land clearing specifically are responsible for the increase in CO2 in the last 150 years is through the measurement of carbon isotopes. Isotopes are simply different atoms with the same chemical behavior (isotope means “same type”) but with different masses. Carbon is composed of three different isotopes, 14C, 13C and 12C. 12C is the most common. 13C is about 1% of the total. 14C accounts for only about 1 in 1 trillion carbon atoms.

CO2 produced from burning fossil fuels or burning forests has quite a different isotopic composition from CO2 in the atmosphere. This is because plants have a preference for the lighter isotopes (12C vs. 13C); thus they have lower 13C/12C ratios. Since fossil fuels are ultimately derived from ancient plants, plants and fossil fuels all have roughly the same 13C/12C ratio – about 2% lower than that of the atmosphere. As CO2 from these materials is released into, and mixes with, the atmosphere, the average 13C/12C ratio of the atmosphere decreases.


- Real Climate
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Old 08-21-2019, 04:40 PM
 
8,060 posts, read 3,941,959 times
Reputation: 5356
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado Rambler View Post
A reply from the ballpark:

We know that fossil fuel burning and land clearing specifically are responsible for the increase in CO2 in the last 150 years is through the measurement of carbon isotopes. Isotopes are simply different atoms with the same chemical behavior (isotope means “same type”) but with different masses. Carbon is composed of three different isotopes, 14C, 13C and 12C. 12C is the most common. 13C is about 1% of the total. 14C accounts for only about 1 in 1 trillion carbon atoms.

CO2 produced from burning fossil fuels or burning forests has quite a different isotopic composition from CO2 in the atmosphere. This is because plants have a preference for the lighter isotopes (12C vs. 13C); thus they have lower 13C/12C ratios. Since fossil fuels are ultimately derived from ancient plants, plants and fossil fuels all have roughly the same 13C/12C ratio – about 2% lower than that of the atmosphere. As CO2 from these materials is released into, and mixes with, the atmosphere, the average 13C/12C ratio of the atmosphere decreases.


- Real Climate
Good job sparky... I knew one of you could google the correct answer!!!

"Thus fossil fuels have lower 13C/12C ratios" is demonstrably different from "fossil fuels only contain 12C", don't ya think?

Well done!!!
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Old 08-21-2019, 04:41 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,524 posts, read 37,121,123 times
Reputation: 13998
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultor View Post
Not.Even.Close!

Fossil fuels contain both carbon-12 and carbon-13.

You're on the right path, but nowhere near the ballpark... try again.
But they contain no carbon-14...Now you are knit picking.
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Old 08-21-2019, 04:52 PM
 
8,060 posts, read 3,941,959 times
Reputation: 5356
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
But they contain no carbon-14...Now you are knit picking.

Spoken like a true Google warrior!
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Old 08-21-2019, 04:53 PM
 
Location: CO/UT/AZ/NM Catch me if you can!
6,926 posts, read 6,931,897 times
Reputation: 16509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultor View Post
Good job sparky... I knew one of you could google the correct answer!!!

"Thus fossil fuels have lower 13C/12C ratios" is demonstrably different from "fossil fuels only contain 12C", don't ya think?

Well done!!!
Now you are just splitting hairs and/or have the same substandard reading comprehension of a typical denier. What part of "12C is the most common. 13C is about 1% of the total. 14C accounts for only about 1 in 1 trillion carbon atoms" don't you understand?
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Old 08-21-2019, 05:03 PM
 
8,060 posts, read 3,941,959 times
Reputation: 5356
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado Rambler View Post
Now you are just splitting hairs and/or have the same substandard reading comprehension of a typical denier. What part of "12C is the most common. 13C is about 1% of the total. 14C accounts for only about 1 in 1 trillion carbon atoms" don't you understand?
Another google warrior!

It's not the isotope that makes identification possible... it is the unique RATIO of isotopes that make identification possible.
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