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I don't think the average person really realizes how bad the economy really is in term of sustainability. When we fall....its going to be a really, really hard fall and the longer the correction is postponed via increasing debt....the harder the fall is going to be.
The average person has already fell. True. They will fall more but they don't have very far to fall.
I was mentoring a guy today and he started talking about a house he owned which he is in court about with the bank. He mentioned 2006 and I said "ah, you got caught up in the Great Recession"...and, yes, turns out he's not even nearly back to square one from back then.
That is a fairly typical type of story.
Of course, things can get worse. He has food to eat and a car to come and meet with me.
But things are really bad for many Americans since the Great Recession stripped all their wealth...what little they had. The lower rungs can't go much lower, but there are plenty of middle and upper middle class who can fall further.
Sad, really...since the entire thing was/is preventable. But that would mean hard work and no Reality TV.
The budget comes from the House, the dems control the House.
Except the deficit was already skyrocketing before Democrats got in power, mainly because of tax cuts for the rich under Trump.
The deficit was falling under Obama. Remember, he inherited 1.2 trillion from G.W Bush....shrunk it down to around 600 billion. Trump took that and ballooned it to over a trillion.
Except the deficit was already skyrocketing before Democrats got in power, mainly because of tax cuts for the rich under Trump.
The deficit was falling under Obama. Remember, he inherited 1.2 trillion from G.W Bush....shrunk it down to around 600 billion. Trump took that and ballooned it to over a trillion.
Republicans LOVE Debt.
Don't kid yourself..... and don't try to fool the masses either.
OBAMA RAN UP MORE TOTAL DEBT THAN ALL OTHER U.S. PRESIDENTS COMBINED
Don't kid yourself..... and don't try to fool the masses either.
OBAMA RAN UP MORE TOTAL DEBT THAN ALL OTHER U.S. PRESIDENTS BEFORE HIM.
If Trump wins in 2020 he may surpass Obama.
Not a partisan issue here, it is both sides.
Please study the chart. Saying Obama ran up debt is disingenuous for a simple reason. If you are given a Mansion in your parents will worth 10 million and there is a 4 million dollar mortgage on it...and it was given to you in ill repair and will be condemned if you don't invest another million in repairs, is it YOU who caused 5 million in debt? And, was that debt optional?
Have you seriously looked at these charts and understood what they say? They are quite accurate. I will spell it out:
#1 BUSH ERA TAX CUTS FROM DEFICIT AND DEBT - obviously Obama could do nothing about that (he tried) - he did do a small amount once the law was up....but Republicans would not allow the Grand Bargain to do more.
#3 WARS - Obama certainly didn't start them and had them running way down by the time he left office - but the MIC does not turn on a dime. Most of that money was already spent...and just imagine if Obama would have issued an order to stop spending a dime! As it was, the Right said he shouldn't have left many years later!
#4 - and not relevant since so tiny and paid back - TARP and Recovery Measures.....all of which benefited most of us in various ways.
As you can see, without 1-3, we'd have less debt today then we had when GWB entered office.
When someone hands you a company in deep debt with commitments and a reduced income stream....its unfair for folks to point to you and say you caused it. You didn't. All you did was get started in SAVING it, which is evident by the reduced deficits in the last year of Obama admin.
Don't kid yourself..... and don't try to fool the masses either.
OBAMA RAN UP MORE TOTAL DEBT THAN ALL OTHER U.S. PRESIDENTS COMBINED
If Trump wins in 2020 he may surpass Obama.
Not a partisan issue here, it is both sides.
That's not a true statement and besides there was a recession in 2008 which impacted the deficit, he would have had room to cut if he was handed the 2016 economy. The 2017 tax cut, historical spending increases in military are insane in this hot economy. Now Trump is considering cutting payroll taxes and capital gains, more insanity.
Shocking I tell you. I wonder how many times the superman of right wing dotards, Hannity, has used the terms "debt" or "deficit" since Le Grande Orange' was elected?
I guess since so many of them get their marching orders from him, you also conveniently stopped talking about this crisis. Just a coincidence?
B-b-but...
"Tax cuts pay for themselves!"
That's what Pub mouthpieces have been spewing for 40 years now.
Let's reflect for a moment.
The year: 2000
The loser of the vote is elevated to the presidency by a rigged system. He immediately cuts taxes for the wealthy. Also deregulates the financial markets, taking the brakes off a greedy Wall St machine that proceeds to run off the rails. Several years later, as his deficit balloons, despite his crooked bookkeeping (keeping the costs of his middle east fiascos "off budget") America and the world suffer the worst economic meltdown in three generations.
The year: 2016
The loser of the vote is elevated to the presidency by a rigged system. He immediately cuts taxes for the wealthy. Also, cuts environmental regulations and grants practically unlimited rights to corporate interests to exploit public lands. His tax cuts produce a "sugar high" that keeps an already recovering economy (see "economic meltdown" above) artificially humming along as the deficit explodes to unprecedented heights. His trade wars ("good and easy to win") damage important sectors of the US economy, slow world commerce, and point us towards another stupidly mismanaged recession.
And when it hits the treasury will be worse than empty, leaving the govt with fewer tools to respond effectively.
The average person has already fell. True. They will fall more but they don't have very far to fall.
I was mentoring a guy today and he started talking about a house he owned which he is in court about with the bank. He mentioned 2006 and I said "ah, you got caught up in the Great Recession"...and, yes, turns out he's not even nearly back to square one from back then.
That is a fairly typical type of story.
Of course, things can get worse. He has food to eat and a car to come and meet with me.
But things are really bad for many Americans since the Great Recession stripped all their wealth...what little they had. The lower rungs can't go much lower, but there are plenty of middle and upper middle class who can fall further.
Sad, really...since the entire thing was/is preventable. But that would mean hard work and no Reality TV.
I don't think our economic fall was preventable. We inherited the global economy after WWII destroyed all the major economies of the world, except ours. The war was not fought on our territory, ignoring Pearl Harbor. As a consequence the wars aftermath, we became the largest net exporter and largest world creditor. That resulted in trillions of dollars, from other places, pouring into the US which got distributed to workers and elevated our standard of living. In other words, our economy and standard of living of artificially boosted from the WWII....by eliminating much of the competition.
Say I had a store in town that sold some of everything...like a Meijer or Super Walmart. Say there were many other stores in town for people to get goods and services, but a massive storm with multiple tornadoes destroyed nearly all the other stores.....except mine. All of a sudden.....I am getting all the business. I can raise my prices because people NEED what I am selling. I can even afford to pay my people much more....now that I have all this new demand and high prices. I can hire more people to keep up with the demand and life will be good for those working in my store.
What happens to my store and my workers when all the stores that were destroyed gets restored, as well as, new stores are built and some with prices much cheaper because they pay their employees much less? My prices will be too high and my workers will be making too much and the demand will be less once my monopoly is gone. I have to be able to compete with the other stores in terms of prices and wages.....so I will have to cut pay, layoff, lower prices...etc.
With global trade and global free markets (of course they are never truly "free") the global force of free trade will tend to level out pay......meaning that once very poor countries will see a rise in their standard of living while the rich countries will see a decline in their standard of living.....heading towards a global equilibrium. The problem is that the US does not want to acquiesce its standard of living. First it went off the gold standard in the 70's.....and since then it has been simply printing money and increasing debt to prop up our economy. We are living way above our means as a nation. We are consuming much more than we are producing. We now have the worlds largest trade deficit. We now are the largest net debt nation (the reverse of what we were after WWII).
The problem is largely politics. No political party or politician wants to have a bad economy under their term because it will ensure the election of the opposition party or candidate. Thus, politicians keep taking actions to prop up the economy.....either cutting taxes or increasing government spending (to make up for a dearth in consumer spending) and the FED will lower interest rates to increase the money supply even more.
What goes up must come down. None of this could be avoided. The only way to avoid a downfall is to never be uplifted.
See....I talk about other things besides race. The problem is that people are not interested in responding to the other things I talk about as they are interested in responding to the things about race. Then they say "You are the racist because all you talk about is race". Well....that is all that people respond to.....so that is what gets the most posts....lol
Last edited by Indentured Servant; 08-23-2019 at 07:49 AM..
Shocking I tell you. I wonder how many times the superman of right wing dotards, Hannity, has used the terms "debt" or "deficit" since Le Grande Orange' was elected?
I guess since so many of them get their marching orders from him, you also conveniently stopped talking about this crisis. Just a coincidence?
"Shocking I tell you.", I wonder how many times the supermen of LEFT wing dotards, which includes the Lame Stream Media, NEVER used the terms "debt" or "deficit" the whole time obama was president, but care NOW. Hypocrites to the core!
I don't think our economic fall was preventable. We inherited the global economy after WWII destroyed all the major economies of the world, except ours. The war was not fought on our territory, ignoring Pearl Harbor. As a consequence the wars aftermath, we became the largest net exporter and largest world creditor. That resulted in trillions of dollars, from other places, pouring into the US which got distributed to workers and elevated our standard of living. In other words, our economy and standard of living of artificially boosted from the WWII....by eliminating much of the competition.
Say I had a store in town that sold some of everything...like a Meijer or Super Walmart. Say there were many other stores in town for people to get goods and services, but a massive storm with multiple tornadoes destroyed nearly all the other stores.....except mine. All of a sudden.....I am getting all the business. I can raise my prices because people NEED what I am selling. I can even afford to pay my people much more....now that I have all this new demand and high prices. I can hire more people to keep up with the demand and life will be good for those working in my store.
What happens to my store and my workers when all the stores that were destroyed gets restored, as well as, new stores are built and some with prices much cheaper because they pay their employees much less? My prices will be too high and my workers will be making too much and the demand will be less once my monopoly is gone. I have to be able to compete with the other stores in terms of prices and wages.....so I will have to cut pay, layoff, lower prices...etc.
With global trade and global free markets (of course they are never truly "free") the global force of free trade will tend to level out pay......meaning that once very poor countries will see a rise in their standard of living while the rich countries will see a decline in their standard of living.....heading towards a global equilibrium. The problem is that the US does not want to acquiesce its standard of living. First it went off the gold standard in the 70's.....and since then it has been simply printing money and increasing debt to prop up our economy. We are living way above our means as a nation. We are consuming much more than we are producing. We now have the worlds largest trade deficit. We now are the largest net debt nation (the reverse of what we were after WWII).
The problem is largely politics. No political party or politician wants to have a bad economy under their term because it will ensure the election of the opposition party or candidate. Thus, politicians keep taking actions to prop up the economy.....either cutting taxes or increasing government spending (to make up for a dearth in consumer spending) and the FED will lower interest rates to increase the money supply even more.
What goes up must come down. None of this could be avoided. The only way to avoid a downfall is to never be uplifted.
See....I talk about other things besides race. The problem is that people are not interested in responding to the other things I talk about as they are interested in responding to the things about race. Then they say "You are the racist because all you talk about is race". Well....that is all that people respond to.....so that is what gets the most posts....lol
Disagree with a few things.
FDR took us off the Gold standard. Nixon just threw the last shovel of dirt on it imo.
As long as we are the worlds currency we can get away with this garbage. But once that ends and the money comes back, hyper inflation.
As far as a bad economy, we survived the mini depression in the early 1920s by cutting taxes and spending 40% in 2 years time. The economy bottomed out instead of stagnating, UE went from 12 to under 4 in 2 years.
The rich countries wont see a decline in the standard of living. The poorer counties will close the gap but that doesn't mean the rich went downhill.
Last edited by Loveshiscountry; 08-23-2019 at 11:02 AM..
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Debt and deficit: Crickets
