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Inducing delivery at 20 weeks is tantamount to abortion. No fetus has lived at that early gestation. And regardless of what that OB thinks, there are reasons. Putting a woman through induction for a fetus with zero chance to survive or a woman who may die due to the strain of labor is downright cruel.
What has week 20 got to do with a discussion of the OB's point about abortion in the third trimester? There is a big difference between weeks 20 and 28.
I thought you didn't have a line, but that there should be no laws restricting abortion. Apologies if I have got that wrong but I can't be bothered going back to find that.
For me the line is different depending on the circumstance. For non viable conditions of the baby, I believe it should be an option at any point. For life threatening issues for the mother, it should be available up to point of viability. Post viability it should not be an option. C section can handle that scenario. Where there is no health related issues for the baby, nor any life threatening issues for the mother prior to viability, I don't believe abortion should be available.
I believe this is a mainstream view held by the majority of people. Unfortunately I believe it has been turned into an issue of man v women and a cynically contrived debate about the patriarchy and men wanting to control women. Some people get so caught up in that mindset that they will find anything and any law excusable.
Ideally it would never be necessary, but hey, I'm not an idealist. As an atheist this isn't about religion for me. As a father who has supported my wife through an abortion, I fully understand the emotions.
I agree with you except for the bolded. I'm against getting the government in on it unless laws ended up being needed to stop healthy post viable abortion. Why are you against abortion prior to viability/consciousness? I don't know if the bolded part is mainstream or not. I suspect many people don't have a huge issue with 1st-trimester abortion.
I don't think it's a man vs woman issue either. Honestly, though, if men had to carry the pregnancy....
Because the number of late term abortions are few not zero. And they’re only done when there’s a non viable fetus or a severe risk to the mothers life. No one has a late term abortion just because despite what the forced birthers want people to believe.
That's not the point; not with politicians, such as DeBlasio, who are good with abortion "right up until birth" and call it "a choice", but it's really when a full term baby is no longer wanted.
For whatever reason.
Last edited by Informed Info; 09-09-2019 at 09:11 PM..
Why are you against abortion prior to viability/consciousness?
I view abortion as a remedy to specified medical issues of the baby or mother. Not for convenience or contraception.
While I don't think it should be available, I wouldn't suggest laws banning it. However I think it should be banned absolutely in the other circumstances we agree on, healthy post viable. I think the NY laws and others like them are truly sickening and will inevitably (but of course rarely) be used for what they allow.
But as I said, I'm not an idealist. I also think the death penalty is sickening for a civilised society.
One cannot take the moral high ground and say abortion should be illegal and then not want to provide any social service.
Right now our neighbors in Bahamas are in great dispair. What was Trumps response? Not our problem. So we have no problem with letting others die. Why the GOP takes its stand on innocents dying on abortion is beyond me. Seems lots of iccocents are dying.
I view abortion as a remedy to specified medical issues of the baby or mother. Not for convenience or contraception.
While I don't think it should be available, I wouldn't suggest laws banning it. However I think it should be banned absolutely in the other circumstances we agree on, healthy post viable. I think the NY laws and others like them are truly sickening and will inevitably (but of course rarely) be used for what they allow.
But as I said, I'm not an idealist. I also think the death penalty is sickening for a civilised society.
I take a more simplistic view I guess because I see a lot of ancillary issues pop up from pro-life people like: how many pregnancies a woman has had, if she got pregnant on purpose, if it was irresponsible, is she using it as a means of contraception, what about the dad's right....
I can't imagine making any of these arguments if I was trying to defend against post viable healthy abortion. For me, it comes down to, is it an individual? If so then we need to protect it. I sure wouldn't waste time trying to paint the pregnant woman in a bad light.
I take a more simplistic view I guess because I see a lot of ancillary issues pop up from pro-life people like: how many pregnancies a woman has had, if she got pregnant on purpose, if it was irresponsible, is she using it as a means of contraception, what about the dad's right....
I can't imagine making any of these arguments if I was trying to defend against post viable healthy abortion. For me, it comes down to, is it an individual? If so then we need to protect it. I sure wouldn't waste time trying to paint the pregnant woman in a bad light.
So what you can know is that if a woman is so concerned about her health (or the health of her baby) while pregnant, she gets prenatal care. Lots of typical testing that will determine viability and/or genetic defects in the early weeks of a pregnancy.
The 20 week ultrasound is typically the first u/s if the pregnancy has been without abnormal bleeding up and until then.
If something is found at the 20 week u/s; an abnormality in the baby or a reason the uterus should be on bedrest (placenta previa, for one, and until the placenta moves or doesn't)...mom is watched. Might end up in the hospital for the remainder of her pregnancy.
This is also why there are fetal maternal physicians/specialists.
And the F/M physicians can and do perform amazing surgeries (in utero).
There is no "oh, mom is preggo with a 30 or 40 weeker who is going to kill her if she doesn't have an abortion immediately".
That just doesn't exist.
Is "it" an individual? It's not a twin of the person who carried it. Might not even have the same gender (penis vs. not) or blood type of the one who carried it - so yeah, different.
Last edited by Informed Info; 09-09-2019 at 10:09 PM..
So what you can know is that if a woman is so concerned about her health (or the health of her baby) while pregnant, she gets prenatal care. Lots of typical testing that will determine viability and/or genetic defects in the early weeks of a pregnancy.
The 20 week ultrasound is typically the first u/s if the pregnancy has been without abnormal bleeding up and until then.
If something is found at the 20 week u/s; an abnormality in the baby or a reason the uterus should be on bedrest (placenta previa, for one, and until the placenta moves or doesn't)...mom is watched. Might end up in the hospital for the remainder of her pregnancy.
This is also why there are fetal maternal physicians/specialists.
And the F/M physicians can and do perform amazing surgeries (in utero).
You seem to think that everyone can afford medical care and that anything found at 20 weeks can be treated. If anything is found, there will be more testing which takes more time and leads to later term abortions if that is the decided course of action. Yes, there are amazing surgeries and miracles, but not for everyone.
I did not. I actually said the total opposite. I said that having an effect of control does not always mean one intends control.
I was not assuming poor intent, I was raising the possibility that someone may have poor intent though they claim otherwise. They also may not and really do come from the perspective of saving/protecting a life.
Quote:
No, the ultimate result is that a life is saved.
In your opinion. Not everyone shares this view.
Last edited by JerseyGirl415; 09-10-2019 at 04:17 PM..
You seem to think that everyone can afford medical care and that anything found at 20 weeks can be treated. If anything is found, there will be more testing which takes more time and leads to later term abortions if that is the decided course of action. Yes, there are amazing surgeries and miracles, but not for everyone.
Generally speaking on this point bolded, pro-lifers often have the "in a perfect world" mindset and ignore the fact that the world is not perfect and people are not perfect.
Yes, in a perfect world women would get prenatal care, great prenatal care at that, but in reality not every doctor is that great, all doctors are capable of making mistakes and do make mistakes, and not every woman, for whatever reason (there could be many potential reasons), seeks prenatal care.
In a perfect world, people would not have sex unless they're ready to possibly have a kid. In a perfect world, people would use birth control perfectly. In a perfect world all babies are wanted. But none of these things are reality for everyone, and they never will be.
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