The "tipping" system makes me embarrassed as an American (dollar, money)

[dsjj251]

Originally Posted by boxus

Ir depends, and the rule was recently changed to allow the cooks to legally get tips, whereas before they were not allowed to. Not every place does it though, but it is common to share with the busboy. When me wife worked as a server during college, she had to share with everyone, sucked really, the full wage staff were getting part of her tips as well. But she, like everyone, lied about how much in tips they got so they would not have to share, which was ten percent.

I never understood though was the percent thing, like carry out a plate to me whether it is a $10 meal or a $50 meal, is the exact same labor, yet one warrants more in tips for doing so?

Exactly, you arent doing extra labor when you carry out a plate of lobster vs a plate of chicken. As I said in my other post, its actually subsidizing the cost of food in most places, which is why sometimes a hamburger can be 10 dollars in a restaurant and a steak can be 15 dollars. Rounding up tips and the owner taking a share all plays into that.

it get the business model but I think most of us would rather just pay 4 dollars for the burger and let who ever wants the steak to pay 25.

[usayit]

Originally Posted by PedroMartinez

Almost every diner considers their tips to be the server's pay. If they are paid by me via higher menu prices, why would I pay them again via tips? I wouldn't.

That $2.50 is essentially"paid" to cover the taxes on tips.

Have you waited tables? If so, would you trade what you made in tips for minimum wage or even minimum wage plus 50%?

I waited tables, and $10 an hour would have been a substantial pay cut for me.

A lot of people I've talked to and including those that participate here do not consider their tips as part of server's pay. Responses like this one are an indication of that:

Originally Posted by FatBob96

The problem started when for some reason, tipping became to be considered obligatory.

To Insure Prompt Service

I think the notion that you tip for good service not just regular service is counter to that notion... it should be obligatory if it is part of server's pay but it is not. But that's still called in to question frequently.. including in this thread.

Also, your question is a false dichotomy. One doesn't have to work for minimum wage OR for tips. One can be paid minimum wage AND still work for tips... many non-restaurant establishments already do this.

Ideally (IMO), servers should make minimum wage (whatever it is). Then tipping should be above and beyond that to the benefit of those that truly deliver above and beyond service. Then it wouldn't be necessary to tie the tip amount to the final cost of the bill... you tip whatever (or as little) as your heart content.

[usayit]

Originally Posted by EveryLady

Many servers at higher-end restaurants oppose being placed under minimum wage rates for that reason. I believe early experience has shown tips are not disappearing where states have mandated a full minimal wage. Maybe fallen some, but most are still tipping.

There shouldn't be regulations around wages for a particular job type. Why is there a separate minimum wage for servers to begin with???? Why not for every other labor type?

Business should just pay wages according to labor laws and if the customer wants to tip they should and if they don't they shouldn't. Obligation to tip is part of the problem.

[treemoni]

Originally Posted by 2nd trick op

Tipping should be outlawed -- period. Hire responsible employees who give superior service, without needless personalization, in return for a respectable wage; firmly and constantly exclude and penalize those who don't, and stop pandering to an over-indulged public who have been conditioned to expect far too much by Madison Avenue.

I agree. Unfortunately, this concept is anti-American because it makes too much sense (and is also fair to workers).

[usayit]

Originally Posted by PedroMartinez

Would you rather pay the server the same (remember, either way YOU pay the server) regardless if he gives you great service or poor sevice and your steak arrives cold with the wrong sides?

Just like other services (ex. auto shop), you react to poor service (assuming no damages.. another discusison) by going somewhere else. You cannot simply walk out without paying the agreed amount irregardless of service.

You react to good service by offering a non-obligatory tip.

Once tip became part of servers' pay (as you mentioned in your previous post), it is wrong to walk out without paying a tip at all as it is part of the cost of service (even poor). For any other business type other than restaurants, that would be considered "Theft of Service" which can result in a lawsuit.

[treemoni]

Originally Posted by usayit

Once tip became part of servers' pay (as you mentioned in your previous post), it is wrong to walk out without paying a tip at all as it is part of the cost of service (even poor).

Are we the server's employer? I don't recall ever signing anything at a restaurant where I agreed to supplement someone's income. There's no fine print that says a tip is part of the service. If there was, they'd just build it into the price. Like other countries do.

[usayit]

Originally Posted by treemoni

Are we the server's employer? I don't recall ever signing anything at a restaurant where I agreed to supplement someone's income. There's no fine print that says a tip is part of the service. If there was, they'd just build it into the price. Like other countries do.

(PedroM. Take note. Another example of someone who didn't know that tips are part of wages... counter to your previous post).

This is pretty well known if you worked that type of job. However, that is part of the problem. Tips are suppose to be a recognition of good service but in the end they are not... actually considered part of the server's wages. Assuming the server is working minimum wage, your tip actually contributes towards the difference between cash min wages (federal is 2.13 an hour) and actual minimum wage. If that difference is not met at the end, the employer has to make up the difference. If it happens to equal actual minimum wage, then all the tips that made up the difference actually went to subsidize the employers cost towards labor.

[wallbuilder]

Originally Posted by reed067

4. Stop being so cheap.

My view has nothing to do with being cheap. If the "true cost" of a meal at a restaurant is 50% higher than what's printed on the menu (as one poster here claims), I'll either pay that higher amount or not eat there. I just hate the guessing game, the emotional triggers, and all the other nonsense that comes with the culture of tipping.

[11thHour]

I like eating out when in Europe for this reason. No tipping b.s. I know what I will pay upfront. They actually pay their servers a living wage. Imagine that.

[Clarallel]

Originally Posted by wallbuilder

Practically everyone I meet who is visiting the U.S. from another country has the same complaint, and sometimes horror stories, about tipping. It's strange enough that prices listed in the U.S. almost never include sales tax, and even stranger when tipping is factored into the equation so that the total price is 20-35% higher than the listed price. Nowadays you are expected to tip for your taxi ride, your morning coffee, who knows what else. A couple I met from Australia the other day told me about how a bar kicked them out for tipping "only" $8 on a round of drinks that that bar said were supposed to warrant a $12 tip.

It's too bad that the Australian couple wasn't in a position to explain that tipping is voluntary.

Tipping cab drivers has always been the norm, but what's new is these other areas, like tipping for a cup of take-out coffee. I've still never figured out why people give Christmas tips to mailmen, considering how bad postal service has become.