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India and China don't have to agree. And accords can be changed; it takes leadership. All we need to do is convince the major markets for Indian and Chinese goods, which would be the west essentially, to adopt the carbon-consumer tariff and it doesn't matter what India and China think of it. That is the beauty of it.
The U.S.'s economy is pretty large; in theory if you're right it could implement those policies on its own. The problem is that the U.S.'s higher living costs would hurt us and not help global warming much.
Uh oh. You shouldn't have brought that up. You do realize that a good fraction of the posters here are libertarians and don't believe in such a contract? This will be interesting....
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri
Let’s switch things up and talk about the “social contract” in regards to climate change.
Will you agree to give up your vehicles and instead utilize public transport in order to help save the planet? Will you give up your single family home and move into an apartment in order to save the planet? Will you convert to vegetarianism? Remember that your choices impact all of us. It’s your duty to comply.
I believe that climate change is really happening. I am not sure how much is man made, though it is naive to think that humans do not contribute to it. My carbon footprint is actually pretty small. I agree with those who say it is not reasonable for the US to bear the burden for reducing whatever effect humans have on the climate when other more populous countries will not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48
As I have said my immune compromised adult daughter hasn't gotten your message. Mom, Dad, Sis, I DEMAND you be fully up to date on your vaccinations to protect ME? Oh, H no, let alone strangers. If anything, she says to us STAY AWAY from ME, because I have the Flu, or Pneumonia.
Can immune compromised people also be "anti-vaxxers", Suzy? I would nominate my pro-choice daughter for that.
Your family is welcome to do what it wishes. Just please stay out of NICUs if you are going to refuse the pertussis vaccine. It will not give you autism, you know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri
If my child was immunocompromised I’d keep them out of school. There’s a constant exchange of germs at school for many things, even things for which vaccines don’t exist. Strep Throat, Norovirus, colds, flu (yes I know that there’s a vaccine but not a particularly effective one). Why would I risk my kid’s health like that?
No, it is not possible to prevent every infection, but it is possible to prevent some very nasty ones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by coschristi
I do not want society to enter into a contract to protect me.
Then you do not believe in traffic laws, or rules concerning food handling in establishments that serve the public, or regulations for patient safety in hospitals?
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice
You've hit the heart of the matter.
A friend once said: You're an adult when you stop waiting for the government to take care of you, and take care of yourself.
I wonder about the use of all the immunosuppressant drugs on the market. Why aren't those people dropping like flies from the *tremendous* number of unvaccinated kids roaming around?
If I had an immunocompromised child, I would never send him/her to public school. That's just a terrible idea that borders on medical neglect.
The problem is not that there are a "*tremendous* number of unvaccinated kids roaming around". It is that they all live in the same neighborhoods.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48
You beat me to what I was going to post having worked in public schools. Children spread these illnesses and diseases around to others, and not just the other kids. There are no vaccines for everything that ailes mankind, as much as these medical professionals would like it be so. When my daughter was teaching, she has caught pink eye, strep, "stomach flu", flu, and colds from the kids. BUT if they were all vaccinated? lol If the public is so terrified today of getting sick, maybe they should take a cue from people of Tokyo and wear masks whenever they go out in public.
People who are immune comprised, as my daughter is, need to take their own health into their own hands. Not DEMAND the public protect them. Once on a flight from Florida to NY, I sat next to a man wearing a face mask and disposable gloves. He brought disinfectant and was wiping everything down, including the soda can the flight attendant handed to him. Not offended by his actions at all. He was doing what he could to protect himself and not demanding others protect him. However, you see, by using babies, immune compromised, and the elderly, they lay a guilt trip on others to increase vaccination rates.
As an elderly person myself, I very much offended by this. I never signed up to be your vaccination campaign poster elderly for others vaccinations. It is my job to protect myself, not anybody else's. My daughter and that man on the plane feel the same way.
We know. You do not care whether you make someone else's family sick. You have made that very clear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri
Is there really? People are out all of the time with colds. It’s common. Flu and norovirus make the rounds every winter.
However, polio and smallpox are not making the rounds, are they? Measles is doing so in some areas, thanks to low vaccination rates, with a very real risk that it will become endemic again - thanks to anti-vaxers. Do you know anyone who has had a baby damaged by rubella in utero?
Why are people denying years of research and looking to random conspiracies on blogs and youtube videos for information?
Theres also a trend where people are told to drink bleach to treat illness. Like wth?
I'm just wondering, given the turn of the thread; if you, the OP ... Sort of understand how this 'headline' is strange.
The ONLY purpose is pro-vaccine propaganda.
The "Flat Earth' theory is almost universally (no pun intended), considered silly. Climate change is multi-faceted. Few people (not all) dispute its a reality. It's all the contributing opinions & political themes that make it contentious. EVERYBODY thinks SOMEBODY is off their rocker about one or two 'facets' of climate change.
That headline hopes to associate the very real, documented & decades-long concern for vaccine safety with frivolous, silly & unresolvably contentious themes. It's a glittering generality; one of the oldest tricks in the book for propaganda.
You can think whatever you want but when I notice propaganda, especially regarding matters of science? I want to to know WHY that is necessary. Because something truly backed by science does not need to suffer propaganda.
Your family is welcome to do what it wishes. Just please stay out of NICUs if you are going to refuse the pertussis vaccine. It will not give you autism, you know.
Erm, I think the poster you responded to is in her 70's.
Immune-mediated microglia dysregulation leading to dysfunctional synaptic pruning in the developing brain; results in Autism.
Immune-mediated microglia dysregulation leading to dysfunctional synaptic pruning in the aging brain; results in Alzheimer's.
But yes, vaccines ARE immune-mediating.
Sigh ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010
Then you do not believe in traffic laws, or rules concerning food handling in establishments that serve the public, or regulations for patient safety in hospitals?
Personal autonomy & medical choice is unrelated to public safety & consumer issues.
Erm, I think the poster you responded to is in her 70's.
I know. You missed the point. Why does she refuse a vaccine that protects unvaccinated infants against whooping cough and then go in a neonatal intensive care unit? That is absolutely irresponsible. Does she think she will catch autism from Tdap?
Quote:
Immune-mediated microglia dysregulation leading to dysfunctional synaptic pruning in the developing brain; results in Autism.
Immune-mediated microglia dysregulation leading to dysfunctional synaptic pruning in the aging brain; results in Alzheimer's.
Of course you know more than all of the physicians and vaccine researchers in the world.
Why has this information not made headlines six inches high?
Quote:
But yes, vaccines ARE immune-mediating.
Vaccines stimulate the immune system the same way the diseases they prevent do. However, the diseases themselves are much harsher on the immune system. That is why people die from them, and otherwise healthy people can and do die from them.
Measles produces immune system damage that lasts two to three years, increasing the risk of other serious infections during that time.
The problem is exacerbated when one side says they own the science, that it is settled yet refuse to open their data/methods up for review or debate. Especially when much of what they do call facts are easily disproven, unrepeatable or shown to be cherry picked.
The "everyone already knows" argument doesn't mean squat unless you can prove...and many of these "scientist" refufuse to prove or answer questions.
Then we have "experts" like AlGore who have failed time and again with their predictions...yet they keep making more predictions expecting us to just believe them...THIS time!
I can give 114 reasons why I am skeptical of the climate change mantra.
Maybe when the most glamourous "alarmists" start actually living their beliefs, not buying waterfront property
It's 2019 - we have this thing called teleconferencing....
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