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Old 09-18-2019, 01:57 PM
 
13,631 posts, read 20,709,215 times
Reputation: 7635

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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dissenter View Post
I was browsing my Facebook feed this morning and I came across a post a friend shared that was very controversial to say the least. The post suggested that making a woman believe you like her just to have sex with her be considered sexual assault. It generated a lot of strong opinions on both sides.

My thoughts: yes leading people on for sex is cruel. But criminalizing it is not something I will get behind. Consent is still given even if under false pretenses. Sex is not and should not be a money back or emotions back guarantee. It is a judgement call and punishing someone because you made a poor judgement call is not cool. It is also impossible to measure a level of emotion from an outside perspective on how much they like someone. The focus on fighting sexual assault should be on people who are having things done to them completely against their will.

What say y’all?
Stupidest thing I have heard, although the day ain't over yet.

I have manipulated a few girls simply for physical benefits. And it has happened to me.

So it goes.
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Old 09-18-2019, 02:06 PM
 
32,982 posts, read 12,259,347 times
Reputation: 14709
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post


Her argument is based on a few flawed pieces of framework.

To unpack...
Every individual involved must give consent to each piece of what may or may not become a relationship. Men have the right to say no, too. True consent can be withdrawn at any time. You might agree to sex, and then change your mind, say no, and get up and leave. Saying yes at one point does not give someone the right to FORCE you to follow through against your will in such circumstances. And consent must be given not only for sex or sexual acts, but also for ongoing relationships and commitments. If someone can speak marriage vows, and later get a divorce, then no man is obligated to continue dating somebody because they had sex with them. And a choice to end an association does not necessarily equal lies and using--he can change his mind. So can she. You can like somebody one day, and not like them the next.

People need to understand that there will never be any guarantee in dating, that your feelings won't get hurt. It is part of life. Hurt feelings are valid, but they don't give you the right to claim that someone is a villain and you are a victim of wrongdoing on their part.

This also feeds into the "female sex as commodity, coin to pay for relationship/commitment/etc" concept, and I hate that. It runs completely contrary to my belief that women have every right to simply enjoy sex for its own sake, every bit as much as a man has.

That said, some people certainly engage with others under false pretenses and misrepresent themselves, to try and get what they want. I think that it sucks that anybody feels like they have to do so, and I think that it's unethical behavior. But not every piece of human dysfunction needs to be codified and criminalized, nor would it help anything to do so. It takes more than a law to teach people how to be decent humans.

I heard that Dr. Jerry Buss (the late owner of the Los Angeles Lakers) used to make women sign a document acknowledging that they were agreeing to have sex with him, and that he used to keep scrapbooks cataloguing the women he had slept with.
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Old 09-18-2019, 02:07 PM
 
19,449 posts, read 12,092,063 times
Reputation: 26193
It would help if we would teach men it is wrong to lie to get sex. I don't imagine this is a big problem as it used to be, when women were more modest. Men would pretend to love them and make the woman fall in love with them in order to get sex. Even if the men never felt anything for them but lust. They would go through a lot, now they have Tinder.
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Old 09-18-2019, 02:09 PM
 
19,449 posts, read 12,092,063 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moth View Post
Stupidest thing I have heard, although the day ain't over yet.

I have manipulated a few girls simply for physical benefits. And it has happened to me.

So it goes.
How would you feel if someone committed suicide over it?
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Old 09-18-2019, 02:15 PM
 
3,115 posts, read 1,568,103 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tamajane View Post
It would help if we would teach men it is wrong to lie to get sex. I don't imagine this is a big problem as it used to be, when women were more modest. Men would pretend to love them and make the woman fall in love with them in order to get sex. Even if the men never felt anything for them but lust. They would go through a lot, now they have Tinder.
Maybe there should be an "informed consent" app for sex.
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Old 09-18-2019, 03:22 PM
 
9,897 posts, read 3,409,049 times
Reputation: 7737
Quote:
Originally Posted by tamajane View Post
It would help if we would teach men it is wrong to lie to get sex. I don't imagine this is a big problem as it used to be, when women were more modest. Men would pretend to love them and make the woman fall in love with them in order to get sex. Even if the men never felt anything for them but lust. They would go through a lot, now they have Tinder.
How about teaching the same to women? Or should we infantalize them further?
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Old 09-18-2019, 03:24 PM
 
7,827 posts, read 3,358,852 times
Reputation: 5141
They say most scifi becomes reality. I once saw a scifi set in the future, where sex had been banned. It's no longer stuff of fairytale, but this is coming true.

Before we know it the progressives will have banned sex altogether.
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Old 09-18-2019, 03:30 PM
 
7,520 posts, read 2,789,278 times
Reputation: 3940
Quote:
Originally Posted by tamajane View Post
It would help if we would teach men it is wrong to lie to get sex. I don't imagine this is a big problem as it used to be, when women were more modest. Men would pretend to love them and make the woman fall in love with them in order to get sex. Even if the men never felt anything for them but lust. They would go through a lot, now they have Tinder.
There are plenty of women who use sex as a tool for getting what they want. We are not babies to be patted on the head or put on a pedestal. Be a grown up and not a tiny baby.
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Old 09-18-2019, 03:47 PM
 
19,449 posts, read 12,092,063 times
Reputation: 26193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Absolom View Post
How about teaching the same to women? Or should we infantalize them further?
Women lie to get sex from men?
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Old 09-18-2019, 03:51 PM
 
19,449 posts, read 12,092,063 times
Reputation: 26193
Quote:
Originally Posted by redwood66 View Post
There are plenty of women who use sex as a tool for getting what they want. We are not babies to be patted on the head or put on a pedestal. Be a grown up and not a tiny baby.
This is often in an attempt to do something fraudulent. Of course that should be illegal too.

Be a grown up and don't complain when someone commits fraud against you and maybe gives you a chronic disease to boot. Maybe some people prefer being victimized with no recourse.
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