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Old 09-18-2019, 11:12 AM
 
13,898 posts, read 6,446,965 times
Reputation: 6960

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohhwanderlust View Post
It doesn't seem like the CA is inking nefarious deals with the manufacturers (I mean, they probably do, but innocent until proven guilty); they're just laying out the rules for what happens in their state.

Also, the other states are free to set minimum standards of their own, provided they're not below the federal standards. Similar to how minimum wage works.
No they aren't. CA is the only state allowed to do so. They were granted a waiver to be able to do so and that waiver can be revoked at any time. The only thing other states can do is adopt the CA standards.

Quote:
Due to its preexisting standards and particularly severe motor vehicle air pollution problems in the Los Angeles metropolitan area, the U.S. state of California has special dispensation from the federal government to promulgate its own automobile emissions standards. Other states may choose to follow either the national standard or the stricter Californian standards
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...sion_standards

Also, this isn't about ASKING manufacturers to make models to fit their standards, it's about them TELLING them they have to do it. They are also telling them they have to make a zero emissions vehicle fleet by a certain time frame. CA has no authority to do so. There is an anti trust probe into those 4 automakers going on now in the DoJ for allowing CA to do this.
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Old 09-18-2019, 12:08 PM
 
Location: Hougary, Texberta
9,019 posts, read 14,293,297 times
Reputation: 11032
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbones View Post
No they aren't. CA is the only state allowed to do so. They were granted a waiver to be able to do so and that waiver can be revoked at any time. The only thing other states can do is adopt the CA standards.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...sion_standards

Also, this isn't about ASKING manufacturers to make models to fit their standards, it's about them TELLING them they have to do it. They are also telling them they have to make a zero emissions vehicle fleet by a certain time frame. CA has no authority to do so. There is an anti trust probe into those 4 automakers going on now in the DoJ for allowing CA to do this.
They're setting the standards. If manufacturers don't want to meet the standard, they're not able to sell in CA. They're not forcing anyone to do anything, just setting the rules for their own sandbox.


Lets not forget that this is also a global issue. The US isn't even the largest purchaser of vehicles anymore, even for GM. The rest of the world is on the climate change train, even if we choose to keep our heads in the sand. Manufacturers don't want to make multiple versions of vehicles. This is why we have such poor choice compared to the rest of the world already. It's only going to get worse.
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Old 09-18-2019, 12:37 PM
 
Location: Lone Mountain Las Vegas NV
18,058 posts, read 10,354,091 times
Reputation: 8828
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbones View Post
No they aren't. CA is the only state allowed to do so. They were granted a waiver to be able to do so and that waiver can be revoked at any time. The only thing other states can do is adopt the CA standards.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...sion_standards

Also, this isn't about ASKING manufacturers to make models to fit their standards, it's about them TELLING them they have to do it. They are also telling them they have to make a zero emissions vehicle fleet by a certain time frame. CA has no authority to do so. There is an anti trust probe into those 4 automakers going on now in the DoJ for allowing CA to do this.
The conditions to revoke the CA standards are set in the Act and pretty much impossible to satisfy in the case of CA.

If CA can set their own standards zero emissions is certainly a settable standard. 0.0 is a value just like any other standard.
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Old 09-18-2019, 12:58 PM
 
9,254 posts, read 3,587,882 times
Reputation: 4852
The new GOP wants small government and Federalism except for those times when they don't want small government and Federalism. MAGA
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Old 09-18-2019, 01:46 PM
 
Location: deafened by howls of 'racism!!!'
52,697 posts, read 34,564,185 times
Reputation: 29289
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
The conditions to revoke the CA standards are set in the Act and pretty much impossible to satisfy in the case of CA.

If CA can set their own standards zero emissions is certainly a settable standard. 0.0 is a value just like any other standard.
oh goodie. since it's 'just a value', and not anything that has to actually reflect reality, let's just set a requirement for ∞ mpg.
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Old 09-18-2019, 01:58 PM
 
Location: Lone Mountain Las Vegas NV
18,058 posts, read 10,354,091 times
Reputation: 8828
Quote:
Originally Posted by uggabugga View Post
oh goodie. since it's 'just a value', and not anything that has to actually reflect reality, let's just set a requirement for ∞ mpg.
0.0 is clearly obtainable. Infinite mpg is not.
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Old 09-18-2019, 02:06 PM
 
Location: King County, WA
15,847 posts, read 6,547,612 times
Reputation: 13338
During the 1996 Summer Olympics in Atlanta, congestion let to a reduction of traffic in the city. At the same time acute asthma attacks among children dropped by 42%.

https://www.jwatch.org/jw20010320000...tion-childhood

We've cleaned up the air a lot since then, and I'm not eager to go back to the bad old days of yellow smog. This attack by DT on our lungs need to be fought tooth and nail, or our kids are going to be pissing on his grave.
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Old 09-18-2019, 02:09 PM
 
Location: deafened by howls of 'racism!!!'
52,697 posts, read 34,564,185 times
Reputation: 29289
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
0.0 is clearly obtainable. Infinite mpg is not.
zero emissions is clearly unattainable. even if internal combustions engines are outlawed, there's no way to make the millions of electric vehicles that would replace them without producing emissions. not to mention the CO2-emitting fuels that will make the necessary gazillions of watts required to power them.
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Old 09-18-2019, 02:12 PM
 
3,606 posts, read 1,659,254 times
Reputation: 3212
Sheesh...are we going back to the 70's when your lungs would hurt on those brown/smoggy days when it was hard to breathe!? Inland Empire SMOG will be brutal with many more health related illnesses if this happens.
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Old 09-18-2019, 02:19 PM
 
Location: deafened by howls of 'racism!!!'
52,697 posts, read 34,564,185 times
Reputation: 29289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicano3000X View Post
Enjoy yellow air. Good times.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjshae View Post
During the 1996 Summer Olympics in Atlanta, congestion let to a reduction of traffic in the city. At the same time acute asthma attacks among children dropped by 42%.

https://www.jwatch.org/jw20010320000...tion-childhood

We've cleaned up the air a lot since then, and I'm not eager to go back to the bad old days of yellow smog. This attack by DT on our lungs need to be fought tooth and nail, or our kids are going to be pissing on his grave.
the federal standards are set to become more strict, not less.

please explain how this is an 'attack by DT on our lungs'
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