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Just breaking: Turkish forces have now opened fire on American Special Forces in Northern Syria. There are casualties, it appears. See rawstory.com and newsweek online for more info and pictures.
Thanks so much, Donald - what a creative present you've given us. Never would have thought of it ourselves, in fact. The gift that keeps on giving...
Wait, didn't the US bail out already? Might be a friendly-fire incident.
Wait, didn't the US bail out already? Might be a friendly-fire incident.
It appears that we withdrew around 50 US soldiers from the border area, but left around 1000.
I think the Administration is playing a shell game with the troops.
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Just breaking: Turkish forces have now opened fire on American Special Forces in Northern Syria. There are casualties, it appears. See rawstory.com and newsweek online for more info and pictures.
Thanks so much, Donald - what a creative present you've given us. Never would have thought of it ourselves, in fact. The gift that keeps on giving...
SO much for the thought Turkey would not invade due to the US being there.
They were going to attack no matter what. Exposing US troops to such risks is not necessary.
The only option the US would have had to prevent it is to openly engage Turkey with US forces, thus war with Turkey. A war started by the US to defend a terrorist organization from Turkey.
The Kurds are the largest ethnic minority in Iraq, Syria, and Turkey. In Iraq, they more or less have their own province. In Turkey, Kurdish rebels have been attacking the Turkish government and military for years because they want more autonomy. In Syria, the Kurds fought with the U.S. for what amounts to a land grab; that is, to control parts of Syria in hopes they can rule it permanently if and when Assad falls. So, what happened? The Turks are attacking northern Syria to kick the Kurds back to Iraq. It is that simple. The Kurds over-reached in Syria.
The Kurds are the largest ethnic minority in Iraq, Syria, and Turkey. In Iraq, they more or less have their own province. In Turkey, Kurdish rebels have been attacking the Turkish government and military for years because they want more autonomy. In Syria, the Kurds fought with the U.S. for what amounts to a land grab; that is, to control parts of Syria in hopes they can rule it permanently if and when Assad falls. So, what happened? The Turks are attacking northern Syria to kick the Kurds back to Iraq. It is that simple. The Kurds over-reached in Syria.
ISIS attacked Kurdish areas FIRST and was trying to push them to extinction. Interestingly, Turkey did little relative to their military strength as far as combating ISIS. I know folks like to push the narrative that the Kurds somehow started the whole ordeal with the goal of gaining land. The truth of the matter is that they were dealt a simple choice by ISIS: fight...or die.
Turkey did little to nothing to ISIS relative to their military strength. If Syrian Kurds overreached, then the Syrian government should be the one concerned.
SO much for the thought Turkey would not invade due to the US being there.
They were going to attack no matter what. Exposing US troops to such risks is not necessary.
The only option the US would have had to prevent it is to openly engage Turkey with US forces, thus war with Turkey. A war started by the US to defend a terrorist organization from Turkey.
You just don't get it, and nothing is going to change your mind.
You see, there is this thing called "diplomacy", and it's something that Trump is not very good at. For whatever reason, you insist on calling the Kurds a "terrorist organization", when they are not. If you want to debate legalese, and whether or not their "official classification" is a "terrorist organization", then you should know that the U.S. government has never mentioned the Armenian genocide, out of fear of alienating the Turkish government and our NATO ally. It's pure politics, the same as classing the Kurds as "terrorists", simply to appease Turkey. Trump's appeasement to Erdogan is something entirely different, and it has disgusted the world. I'd be willing to bet that the Turks are laughing behind his back.
Turkey causing U.S. casualties, and the Kurds standing by our side and fighting and dying defeating ISIS, and still you side with Turkey. You clearly have some agenda in this discussion, because you are on every page of this thread defending Trump's decision to throw our REAL friends under the bus and let Turkey have it's way in Syria.
The Turks have never been our friends. I've served with people who did training exercises in Turkey, and I still remember them saying they couldn't believe these guys were part of NATO. They said the hostility they felt was palpable and were glad they were only there for a month.
SO much for the thought Turkey would not invade due to the US being there.
They were going to attack no matter what. Exposing US troops to such risks is not necessary.
The only option the US would have had to prevent it is to openly engage Turkey with US forces, thus war with Turkey. A war started by the US to defend a terrorist organization from Turkey.
The US troops (50 to 100) in the safe zone were the only ones that directly prevented the Turkish incursion. Others out of invasion path were thought to be in safe positions. Apparently not. The shelling was an accident.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HampT
The Kurds are the largest ethnic minority in Iraq, Syria, and Turkey. In Iraq, they more or less have their own province. In Turkey, Kurdish rebels have been attacking the Turkish government and military for years because they want more autonomy. In Syria, the Kurds fought with the U.S. for what amounts to a land grab; that is, to control parts of Syria in hopes they can rule it permanently if and when Assad falls. So, what happened? The Turks are attacking northern Syria to kick the Kurds back to Iraq. It is that simple. The Kurds over-reached in Syria.
There was no land grab involved. The Kurds are a substantial portion of the settled population in that region of Syria. They fought ISIS but did not engage Assad governmental forces. Those forces vacated the area heading south to combat Syrian rebel forces.
I suppose there could be some Peshmerga (Iraqi Kurdish militia) in Syria. But by and large there are no Kurds to "kick back to Iraq." Again, they live in Syria.
One of Turkey's goals is to settle Syrian refugees (Arab-identifying) along the border to further dilute the Kurdish population pushing the Kurds out. Some Kurds have fled to Iraq. This amounts to ethnic cleansing.
The entire situation still was in flux, with no white knights in the region. This, however, further de-stablized it opening the door to a U.S. problem from any ISIS resurgence.
The only way to settle this is to start a GoFundMe for all those Americans who want to go to Syria for fight for the Kurds. I'll donate a hundred bucks. It would be worth it just for the entertainment value. Maybe we could even do a reality show.
The only way to settle this is to start a GoFundMe for all those Americans who want to go to Syria for fight for the Kurds. I'll donate a hundred bucks. It would be worth it just for the entertainment value. Maybe we could even do a reality show.
You'd be a little late. Throw in some air support, and the Kurds did just fine on their own. No one else was going to do it for them. The governmental forces hightailed it out of there. Turkish forces sat mere miles from ISIS encroachments waving them on thru - unless it suited them otherwise. Some Turkish PKK did cross the border to help.
Now? Trump already started a reality show. This feels like a continuation. The President and the Turks. So far, is 0 - 1.
You just don't get it, and nothing is going to change your mind.
You see, there is this thing called "diplomacy", and it's something that Trump is not very good at. For whatever reason, you insist on calling the Kurds a "terrorist organization", when they are not. If you want to debate legalese, and whether or not their "official classification" is a "terrorist organization", then you should know that the U.S. government has never mentioned the Armenian genocide, out of fear of alienating the Turkish government and our NATO ally. It's pure politics, the same as classing the Kurds as "terrorists", simply to appease Turkey. Trump's appeasement to Erdogan is something entirely different, and it has disgusted the world. I'd be willing to bet that the Turks are laughing behind his back.
Turkey causing U.S. casualties, and the Kurds standing by our side and fighting and dying defeating ISIS, and still you side with Turkey. You clearly have some agenda in this discussion, because you are on every page of this thread defending Trump's decision to throw our REAL friends under the bus and let Turkey have it's way in Syria.
The Turks have never been our friends. I've served with people who did training exercises in Turkey, and I still remember them saying they couldn't believe these guys were part of NATO. They said the hostility they felt was palpable and were glad they were only there for a month.
The Kurds, specifically the PKK which the US US supports, are a terror group. The Kurds as a group support the PKK. The PKK has been conducting waves of terror attacks in Turkey for decades, you are free to look all these up. These are terror attacks against civilians in Turkey, that is terrorism. The Kurds want an independent country, that is their only goal.
You are the one that does not get it. The Turks are not going to allow he Kurds to continue to establish their state in Syria, so they can launch attacks into Turkey. No more than the US or anyone would allow a group to set up so they can launch attacks. The US invaded Afghanistan...why? Because it was being used as a launching point for terror attacks against the US. The US has been conducting military attacks all over the world due to these areas being staging areas for terrorism. Well, same here, the Kurdish state in Syria is going to be a launching area for attacks against Turkey.
So you want to side with a terror group? All right then,. fine, go ahead, but why whine about ISIS then? Since you clearly support terrorism.
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