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Old 10-17-2019, 10:00 AM
 
Location: Rural Wisconsin
19,538 posts, read 9,064,520 times
Reputation: 37709

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd View Post
i think the question drives directly to what is wrong with the system. maybe what is wrong with everything we do from a government perspective.

the question shouldn't be what kind of insurance we want to see. The question should be what will:
1. drive down the cost of healthcare
2. grant everyone access to affordable healthcare

THOSE are the questions. and none of the solutions being offered address those questions.
Thanks for responding and for your opinion, but what has occurred to me is that very few people will support a system that they completely disagree with or that they believe is unfair to them personally. I think that in order for a national system to be approved, it must meet with approval from the majority of voters, and that is why I phrased my questions that way.

But, yes, I do very much agree with the two points you made above, and I also think that EVERYONE should pay something in the form of co-pays, at least -- and if they can't afford the co-pays upfront, then they should be billed for the co-pays, just like any other kind of debt, with the same kind of penalties and/or consequences for non-payment.
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Old 10-17-2019, 10:00 AM
 
Location: Texas
38,860 posts, read 25,397,197 times
Reputation: 24780
Lightbulb What kind of medical insurance plan(s) would YOU like to see?

1) Reasonable premiums

2) Good coverage

3) Low deductibles

You know...

The kind we had 25 years ago.

Before corporate interests took over America's health care establishment.

But we can't turn back the calendar.

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Old 10-17-2019, 10:01 AM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,858 posts, read 17,241,955 times
Reputation: 14459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian View Post
And ask why hospitalization can wipe out a bank account. Mircea has broken this down into minute detail, and I am sure if you search, you'll find those breakdowns.

Ask why a single hopsitalization can bankrupt someone. Go look into that. By all means.

And btw - health care spending account is exactly how I fund my medical costs. I'd save more, but government caps how much I am allowed to save pre-tax because they can't have my taxable income going too low that I escape paying them proper tribute. I mean, I have general savings as well, but the HSA thing caps really low, like half the bronze care annual deductible. Can't have people being financially resilient or else they may question government's efficacy.

These discussions are so funny to me, and absolutely the best proof available that both liberals and conservatives alike are pure statists. Just talk about funding your own health care, and you instantly get everyone on team Red and team Blue screeching at full volume, full hysterics, like straight apoplexy.

Just hint at removing government from health care, and Team Red and Team Blue lock arms like BFFs to scream and holler at the crazy individual thinking like an individual.
Just watch your blood pressure as you continue this debate.

Apparently when your stress goes up my BP is impacted as well...under the statist plan.



Also to note, the discussion isn't funny as you claim...it's hysterical.

Sad too. I commented in the inequality thread how statism has regressed human cognitive ability and instinct.

These folks are arguing against their own survival for some mythical/socially constructed paradigm.
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Old 10-17-2019, 10:01 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,597 posts, read 44,352,506 times
Reputation: 13550
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian View Post
Where did I say screw everyone else? I simply said what other people purchase or don't, what they can afford or can't, etc is not my concern.

If other people having insurance is your concern and you are so altruistic...how many poor people are you buying insurance for right now...voluntarily, with your disposable income? How many other deductibles are you paying the OOP costs for...voluntarily, with your disposable income? I am betting the answer is NONE, at least outside of your marriage/children.

You care about your fellow man less than I do, truth be told. Wanna know why I can say that? Because I admit I don't care, but I am not advocating putting a gun in anyone's face to make them pay for other peoples' stuff. You on the other hand, under your assumed guise of "caring" are advocating exactly that. You want a gun put in my face in order to fund people you think deserve things that they cannot pay for but I can. That's how the statist ideals work. The government has no money until they first take it, by force, from those who have it. That's what you advocate on behalf of...taking money from everyone, by force, to fund what you think is "beneficial" to society. That doesn't make you a caring person, it makes you a thief and a hypocrite. Really, the only difference between you and a common thief is the common thief has the guts to face me man to man, they don't lie about what it is they are doing, and they don't demand that I sanction their actions under some nonsense about social contracts and all that.

No statist, especially such a devout one as yourself, can come at me and talk about caring about others. It's pure hypocrisy. Caring about others means you volunteer your money, not demand that I volunteer mine. I'd explain how those are different, but trying to explain logical consistency and morality to a statist would less productive than trying to teach Trigonometry to my cats.
Exactly. I've made that same exact point many times. If so many people are as altruistic as they "claim" to be , private charitable foundations would be able to provide for the needy, no problem.
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Old 10-17-2019, 10:02 AM
 
27,307 posts, read 16,133,051 times
Reputation: 12100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annie53 View Post
Good luck with that if you have, or one of your children is born with, an expensive to treat, long term health problem.

What is your plan when you are priced out of health insurance?
I don’t play “what if†games.

If you can’t afford to take care of them, don’t reproduce.
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Old 10-17-2019, 10:04 AM
 
27,307 posts, read 16,133,051 times
Reputation: 12100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Retired View Post
Opinion: The only way for a social healthcare to work is everybody must chip in.
Not all can invest equally for a multitude of reasons but all must participate
to achieve some sort of satisfactory result. Due to lack of participation, insurances
strip away the fat to reduce losses. This will continue and will not stop until it reaches the
point of excluding lists of subscribers such as illegal immigrants,alcoholics and drug addicts
as an example to think about. This cutting of corners will continue until only the healthy and those
willing to spend an enormous amount of money end up with coverage in this Great Country.
Remember: There is no such thing as free.................Someone out there is paying. Might as well be everybody.
Uh uh. Not me. Keep your hands out of my pockets.
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Old 10-17-2019, 10:05 AM
 
27,307 posts, read 16,133,051 times
Reputation: 12100
Quote:
Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220 View Post
You'll have to leave the US if that's your position, and it's not socialism. The doctors and hospitals will still be private
Government taking money from me to spend on someone else is socialism. Period.
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Old 10-17-2019, 10:06 AM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,858 posts, read 17,241,955 times
Reputation: 14459
Quote:
Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220 View Post
Good old Randian's, think society doesn't exist, everyman for himself, and screw everyone else^

Sounds like a great way to go through life #sarcasm
Rand despised anarchists, comrade.

The indoctrination centers don't address that.
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Old 10-17-2019, 10:06 AM
 
27,307 posts, read 16,133,051 times
Reputation: 12100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliott_CA View Post
You must not have private insurance nor Medicare. Have fun paying full rate out of pocket.
No problem.
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Old 10-17-2019, 10:10 AM
 
Location: Rural Wisconsin
19,538 posts, read 9,064,520 times
Reputation: 37709
Quote:
Originally Posted by donsabi View Post
Why ask this question? The US is number one in medical innovations and yet 37th in medical care. Why not simply go to countries that have a good working plan in place and start with a duplicate of that system updating as any special needs by Americans surfaces.

For Medicare, simply remove the cap. Everyone who is entitled to Medicare pays their share regardless of income and earnings.

I also would like to see a government sponsored program whereas people who have proved themselves qualified receive a government paid medical education. In return those medical graduates agree to work 5 or 10 years at a clinic for a base wage. These clinics would be free to all patients.

Currently our medical system is based on a profit motive. The want to keep patients sick and being continually treated as they do not make money on the healthy or dead. 1 in 25 Americans now bankrupt because of medical bills. This is a travesty. Any plan is better that what we have.

I'm out of reps now, but I wish I could give you more than one for the above post! IMO, your entire post is full of great ideas -- and I particularly like what you said in the third paragraph about government-paid medical scholarships in exchange for working at a free clinic!


P.S. on Edit: And the sentence I bolded really hit home with me. I have been very fortunate in that I have been healthy for virtually all of my 66 years, but last year when I qualified for Medicare, I went in for my Medicare Wellness exam, and now I am being hounded by the clinic I finally found that would accept Medicare -- I had to call seven different offices before I found one that would, btw -- to come in again only because it has been a year since I was in! (In the last ten years except for the wellness exam, I had only been to the doctor once in the past ten years, and that was for shingles. I have never been the type to run to the doctor for every little thing, and I am not about to start now. Or course, that is my choice, and I realize that others might have very different opinions about that!)

Last edited by katharsis; 10-17-2019 at 10:42 AM..
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