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A large part of Trump's appeal is he's giving the religious right their dream justices. They are now going to have the opportunity to roll back civil rights and social progress 50-70 years. If they can replace RBG that will seal the deal. Get ready for abortion bans, total criminalization of sodomy, prayer and Bible study in public schools, creationism taught in science class as an alternative to evolution, nationwide abstinence only and tight regulations on birth control, criminal charges for women who cross state lines to get an abortion, heavily censored media with everything required to promote or at least not be offensive to an evangelical Christian worldview, and likely much, much more as drastic measures will be taken to roll back our society and culture to the 1950s. I also think a lot of blue laws will make a comeback. To force a return to traditional values, there will need to be laws forcing non-essential businesses to be closed on Sunday, national holidays to be observed, etc.
But would this society really be better? I want to say that I know most of that probably will not actually happen but it's what the religious right ultimately wants and Trump is moving us in that direction. At this point in history, it seems like it would require a significant oppression of individual liberty in order to really bring back "traditional values."
The OP can indulge his fantasies as much, and as long as he wishes, but the fact remains that Trump was elected (mostly in self-defense) by a coalition of independents. Republicans and libertarians; the latter now comprise only about 3 percent of the electorate, but perhaps 10-12 percent of the coalition previously cited, and as much as 1/3 of the general conservative consensus.
The most senior of the libertarian movement spoke in opposition to the Religious Right some forty years ago, and I can assure you, Little Man, that we will be the first to speak out if the Bible-thumping gets too loud.
Last edited by 2nd trick op; 10-20-2019 at 11:35 PM..
You only mentioned perceived morals, not the real ones.
What are perceived morals? There is only one moral code and that is what is on the law books. Anything else is just something to argue over since it cannot be enforced. And ultimately the only argument that matters is the one at the voting booth which leads to the codification of any moral values. That is how democracy works - we vote on the laws we want.
If liberals want to legislate they should use legislatures not courts.
Legislating from the bench is brittle because once the Supreme Court changes its mood all those precedents get overturned like dominos. Laws passed via the 50 state legislatures and Congress are much more stable.
Or in some Red States, liberals must resort to the petition route for an initiative to do something about it when ruling Republicans go overboard in prohibiting individual liberty. For instance, the legalization of medical marijuana in Oklahoma would still not be happening in the foreseeable future had activists not have the right to get it done via petition.
Would the USA really be better off if traditional values were imposed by the state?
The title of this thread crystallizes in one brief sentences, the utter confusion and lack of understanding displayed by the Left.
Traditional values are not imposed by the state. Traditional values are those values that people have discovered for themselves (and then communicate among themselves), that result in the most satisfying, secure, and prosperous lives for themselves and those around them. These traditional values are those that work with human nature as it actually is, to produce survival and contentment
Once they discover those values, some societies then cast them as laws. Don't steal, don't murder, no adultery, etc.
The notion that "traditional" values can be created and imposed by fiat of a tyrannical government, is as preposterous as a notion that if government orders we should flap our arms and fly, we would become able to do it. "Values" that run contrary to what humans and their natures actually are, are doomed to failure, and would require considerable ignorance as well as hopeless arrogance to even invent and enact.
Yet the idea that government is the source of all wisdom and an infallible judge of human nature, is constantly espoused by people like the OP... who then wonders why he constantly encounters stiff resistance from the people he is trying to impose his wisdom and judgement on.
Yet the idea that government is the source of all wisdom and an infallible judge of human nature, is constantly espoused by people like the OP... who then wonders why he constantly encounters stiff resistance from the people he is trying to impose his wisdom and judgement on.
WRONG. The OP was referring to the religious right for believing in its agenda as the source of all wisdom and the infallible judge of human nature along with using the government to enforce its agenda upon the people.
Our marriage and birthrate are way down. Maybe Lebensborn for the Fatherland? "Traditional Values" like this? Think the majority of Americans would comply?
To the OP, I went to Catholic School. We were taught Evolution in Science Class. In Religion Class we were taught God created Evolution. We did not sit around reading the Bible. WHICH Bible? WHOSE Religion?
A large part of Trump's appeal is he's giving the religious right their dream justices. They are now going to have the opportunity to roll back civil rights and social progress 50-70 years. If they can replace RBG that will seal the deal. Get ready for abortion bans, total criminalization of sodomy, prayer and Bible study in public schools, creationism taught in science class as an alternative to evolution, nationwide abstinence only and tight regulations on birth control, criminal charges for women who cross state lines to get an abortion, heavily censored media with everything required to promote or at least not be offensive to an evangelical Christian worldview, and likely much, much more as drastic measures will be taken to roll back our society and culture to the 1950s. I also think a lot of blue laws will make a comeback. To force a return to traditional values, there will need to be laws forcing non-essential businesses to be closed on Sunday, national holidays to be observed, etc.
But would this society really be better? I want to say that I know most of that probably will not actually happen but it's what the religious right ultimately wants and Trump is moving us in that direction. At this point in history, it seems like it would require a significant oppression of individual liberty in order to really bring back "traditional values."
Trump and his base have posed the flip side to^ when he/ they make reference to thE US turning into Venezuela, if a Democrat is elected. Not going to happen.
The Religious Right is only a small part of those who support Trump. Even then....
Blue laws are state/county/municipal issues. Nothing to do with Federal Law.
A large part of Trump's appeal is he's giving the religious right their dream justices. They are now going to have the opportunity to roll back civil rights and social progress 50-70 years. If they can replace RBG that will seal the deal. Get ready for abortion bans, total criminalization of sodomy, prayer and Bible study in public schools, creationism taught in science class as an alternative to evolution, nationwide abstinence only and tight regulations on birth control, criminal charges for women who cross state lines to get an abortion, heavily censored media with everything required to promote or at least not be offensive to an evangelical Christian worldview, and likely much, much more as drastic measures will be taken to roll back our society and culture to the 1950s. I also think a lot of blue laws will make a comeback. To force a return to traditional values, there will need to be laws forcing non-essential businesses to be closed on Sunday, national holidays to be observed, etc.
But would this society really be better? I want to say that I know most of that probably will not actually happen but it's what the religious right ultimately wants and Trump is moving us in that direction. At this point in history, it seems like it would require a significant oppression of individual liberty in order to really bring back "traditional values."
Can't wait!
See? I can be a ridiculous moron too!
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