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Old 10-27-2019, 03:33 PM
 
13,806 posts, read 9,643,643 times
Reputation: 5243

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Quote:
Originally Posted by aileesic View Post
No. Images do not make a difference if one is not internally motivated. You cannot force people to be interested in things they just are not interested in. And still can't deny that being the right fit in any career means more than just being qualified. It takes a whole long list of positives, such the right social aptitude, the right temperament, the right look as well.

I still have to disagree with poor health being related to poverty. There are many other illness running rampant in Africa and U.S. inner cities as well because of behavior and lifestyle choice.

Blacks are not prevented from achieving in other areas, many are just not genuinely motivated in STEM fields. Sports and entertainment are the main fields of interest. Why? Indeed, much of this has to do with the need to see blacks (and for them to see each other) as showpieces to be conveniently put away when no longer needed. But then there aren't all that many black people capable of achieving success in sports or entertainment either. If that were true, wouldn't be so many living in poverty.
There is no such thing as internally motivated. Raise a child on an island with no books, no contact with the outside world, no knowledge of what has been accomplished in the world to date.....what do you think his internal motivation will have him become? Founder of a drone transportation company?
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Old 10-27-2019, 03:49 PM
 
Location: Honolulu/DMV Area/NYC
30,488 posts, read 17,934,414 times
Reputation: 34207
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineDeCoeur View Post
Point out where I attacked Israel. You’re the one who has a problem with the truth. Since you’re going to act ignorant, which in fact you are, I will provide the information.




https://fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RL33222.pdf
You've been singling out Israel for attack via US foreign aid policy throughout the thread, including spreading falsehoods in doing so:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineDeCoeur View Post
Yes, you believe Israel is worth of special benefits and treatment over American citizens who are in fact displaced peoples. whose ancestors were never compensated for their slave labor, whose parents or grandparents or they themselves endured Jim Crow

Not a liberal. So take your delusional accusations elsewhere.
//www.city-data.com/forum/newre...ply&p=56501671

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineDeCoeur View Post
No, it actually is not. Israel receives more aid than any other nation and this country has great sympathy about what Jews endured all the way in Germany. We do far more for Israel than we do others. Nowhere did I say it should be abolished.

However, no other nation should receive priority over American citizens whose ancestors were enslaved here and endured Jim Crow until the 1960s. Since Israel receives the most, start significantly cutting from them first.
//www.city-data.com/forum/newre...ply&p=56501575

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineDeCoeur View Post
Ooooooohhhh that just burns your soul. You want those billions for Israel. Not for American citizens. Your fellow Jews only. Incredibly biased.

What nation has received more aid over the years than Israel?
//www.city-data.com/forum/newre...ply&p=56501711

As I mentioned, Israel does not receive the most aid today (and the timeline since WWII isn't helpful either, as it doesn't say whether any nation has received more aid "throughout the years" pre and during WWII). And, of course, it leaves two big indirect "aid" expenditures out of the conversation, which are are far greater than aid to Israel over the year: those to Japan and South Korea. We spend many billions of dollars a year to station and support troops and their families in those countries . . . and that's money that is being spent in those foreign countries' economies, not at home in the US to support American businesses. While there is some benefit to the US (as is the case with ANY aid situation), the benefit to those countries is even greater as a deterrence against DPRK and Chinese aggression. And, given that the overwhelming majority of aid to Israel is military in nature, the stationing of US troops in Japan and South Korea is more than an appropriate comparison.

Still, as I mentioned also, that's a foolish baseline. Harping about "over the years" means nothing to the Americans you supposedly care so much about today who are supposedly worse off because we are giving aid to Israel. Again, Israel receives $3 billion in aid a year. The other countries (and Iraq and Afghanistan each receive more aid per year than Israel does TODAY) account for over $25 billion in aid per year TODAY. We cannot go back and take back the aid given to Israel or any other nation "over the years," so that argument is a cheap talking point that doesn't address the here and now.

You mention that no other nation should receive priority over American citizens "whose ancestors were enslaved here and endured Jim Crow until the 1960s," but then choose to focus in on the Jewish state, which receives only a fraction of global US aid today; talking about decades worth of aid won't change the here and now. That's the problem. Again, $3 billion to Israel a year. More than $25 billion in other aid. If you care about putting Americans first, I'd expect you to (using your logic) condemn aid to Iraq and Afghanistan (and don't forget Japan and South Korea), which receive more money than Israel TODAY, and to decry the countries receiving aid, which together, account for the overwhelming majority of US foreign aid.

Try to justify your singling out the Jewish state with someone else. I and others see right through it
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Old 10-27-2019, 03:52 PM
 
Location: Chicago Area
12,688 posts, read 6,686,555 times
Reputation: 6593
Reparations would have been legit over 150 years ago. There were proposals ceding land and money and they should have happened, but will of the people just wasn't behind it.

Fun fact: The word slave comes from the same root as Slav -- because these white Eastern Europeans were so frequently sold into slavery that words got intermixed. Another fun fact: The Islamic world imported significantly more black slaves from Sub-Saharan Africa than all of the European powers combined, and they did it over a much longer span of time. In fact, the biggest reason that blacks along the west coast of Africa were to ready and willing to sell people captured from inter-tribal wars into slavery was because they'd been selling each other into the Islamic world for centuries. They took slaves from every corner of Europe, Central Asia, East Asia, India, etc. Truth is, the most massive and brutal slave trade in human history was the Islamic world. Slavery still exists in varying degrees of legality throughout predominantly Muslim countries. The slave trade in the Islamic world was rampant centuries before the European slave trade. It also outlasted it. Everything bad that European slave traders did, Muslim slave traders did on a much larger scale. The European participation was modeled off of the Islamic world's slave trade in the first place.

So then:
  1. Does the entire Muslim world owe even more in reparations to Africans than the USA and Europe?
  2. Does the entire Muslim world owe all of Europe, Central Asia and India reparations?
  3. Since every male taken into slavery was castrated, there's a giant number of Europeans, Africans and Indians who were never born, so who do they pay the reparations to?
  4. Since you're talking about erasing millions of people from even being able to be born, one would think that the payment of reparations should be quite a bit larger.
  5. While it's terrible that legal slavery existed in the USA and Europe, it does not exist today.
  6. Meanwhile slavery still exists today. It's just not happening legally in the USA and Europe, but it is everywhere else. Approximately 40 million people are believed to be enslaved right now. Shouldn't we focus on the problem at hand first??
  7. If you go back far enough in history, every group of people on the planet were enslaved at some point. So who doesn't get reparations? Is their plight and suffering any less significant?
Yes, black chattel slavery in the USA was bad. It was also abolished 150 years ago. If we're willing to pay reparations to these distant descendants of the victims of slavery, then how dare we stop there?? We must either compensate all victims of slavery through all of human history, or we might as well not do it at all. And the great melting pot that is the United States makes it even trickier. If you immigrated from Africa after 1865, why should you get reparations? You probably owe them because it is extremely likely that your family sold people into European slavery in the first place. What if you're 1/4 black descended from slaves as opposed to 100%? Do you own 75% in reparations, but get paid 25%? If I can prove that I am overwhelmingly the descendant of abolitionists and zero slaver-owners -- which is true -- does this absolve me from owing reparations? What about every white person who has family that died freeing the slaves?

Maybe just admit that we can't retroactively right every wrong in human history and just try to be good from this point on?
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Old 10-27-2019, 03:54 PM
 
Location: Raleigh NC
25,118 posts, read 16,090,143 times
Reputation: 14408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post
Well....if you are the opposition it behooves you to focus on the least tenable theory/methodology for reparations and use that as the model and justification for your dissent.
what do you propose be done, exactly?
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Old 10-27-2019, 03:56 PM
 
13,806 posts, read 9,643,643 times
Reputation: 5243
Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident View Post
You've been singling out Israel for attack via US foreign aid policy throughout the thread, including spreading falsehoods in doing so:



//www.city-data.com/forum/newre...ply&p=56501671



//www.city-data.com/forum/newre...ply&p=56501575



//www.city-data.com/forum/newre...ply&p=56501711

As I mentioned, Israel does not receive the most aid today (and the timeline since WWII isn't helpful either, as it doesn't say whether any nation has received more aid "throughout the years" pre and during WWII). And, of course, it leaves two big indirect "aid" expenditures out of the conversation, which are are far greater than aid to Israel over the year: those to Japan and South Korea. We spend many billions of dollars a year to station and support troops and their families in those countries . . . and that's money that is being spent in those foreign countries' economies, not at home in the US to support American businesses. While there is some benefit to the US (as is the case with ANY aid situation), the benefit to those countries is even greater as a deterrence against DPRK and Chinese aggression. And, given that the overwhelming majority of aid to Israel is military in nature, the stationing of US troops in Japan and South Korea is more than an appropriate comparison.

Still, as I mentioned also, that's a foolish baseline. Harping about "over the years" means nothing to the Americans you supposedly care so much about today who are supposedly worse off because we are giving aid to Israel. Again, Israel receives $3 billion in aid a year. The other countries (and Iraq and Afghanistan each receive more aid per year than Israel does TODAY) account for over $25 billion in aid per year TODAY. We cannot go back and take back the aid given to Israel or any other nation "over the years," so that argument is a cheap talking point that doesn't address the here and now.

You mention that no other nation should receive priority over American citizens "whose ancestors were enslaved here and endured Jim Crow until the 1960s," but then choose to focus in on the Jewish state, which receives only a fraction of global US aid today; talking about decades worth of aid won't change the here and now. That's the problem. Again, $3 billion to Israel a year. More than $25 billion in other aid. If you care about putting Americans first, I'd expect you to (using your logic) condemn aid to Iraq and Afghanistan (and don't forget Japan and South Korea), which receive more money than Israel TODAY, and to decry the countries receiving aid, which together, account for the overwhelming majority of US foreign aid.

Try to justify your singling out the Jewish state with someone else. I and others see right through it
But Israel only has 8 million people....right? I have no problem with Israel getting aid and I am sure she does not either. I think we are just saying if America can send so much to the world and Americans are willing to send so much to the world, to help solve problems or defend people that WE had nothing to do with, why is there so much opposition to spending money right here at home to help black people? People are always saying that THEY had nothing to do with what happened to black people and hence should not be held to account through their tax dollars. Well....what did they have to do with Iraq, Egypt, Israel or the other nations that get sent billions in aid each year?
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Old 10-27-2019, 04:11 PM
 
Location: Honolulu/DMV Area/NYC
30,488 posts, read 17,934,414 times
Reputation: 34207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post
But Israel only has 8 million people....right? I have no problem with Israel getting aid and I am sure she does not either. I think we are just saying if America can send so much to the world and Americans are willing to send so much to the world, to help solve problems or defend people that WE had nothing to do with, why is there so much opposition to spending money right here at home to help black people? People are always saying that THEY had nothing to do with what happened to black people and hence should not be held to account through their tax dollars. Well....what did they have to do with Iraq, Egypt, Israel or the other nations that get sent billions in aid each year?
Generally speaking, I don't have a problem with what you write. But that's not what Reine has been arguing. She has explicitly picked on Israel to support an argument that we shouldn't be taking care of others while there are millions of black Americans suffering from the effects of legal discrimination from Jim Crow, etc. But that argument shouldn't be an Israel or bust argument (as far as foreign aid goes), especially as Israel receives only a fraction of all US foreign aid; thus, talking about aid to Israel over the years is nonsensical as we're not going to get that aid back and cutting off aid to Israel today would still leave the overwhelming majority of aid distributions, which means that the plight of black Americans really wouldn't change much. Again, $3 billion in aid to Israel a year, more than $25 billion in aid to everyone else.

Reine's focus on Israel represents a disturbing trend of singling out the Jewish state for criticism. We see it both via the aid argument, as well as the human rights argument (despite the relative silence . . . when compared to criticism of Israel . . . concerning the tremendous human rights violations among Israel's Islamic neighbors.
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Old 10-27-2019, 04:16 PM
 
15,068 posts, read 6,112,763 times
Reputation: 5121
Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident View Post
You've been singling out Israel for attack via US foreign aid policy throughout the thread, including spreading falsehoods in doing so:



//www.city-data.com/forum/newre...ply&p=56501671



//www.city-data.com/forum/newre...ply&p=56501575



//www.city-data.com/forum/newre...ply&p=56501711

As I mentioned, Israel does not receive the most aid today (and the timeline since WWII isn't helpful either, as it doesn't say whether any nation has received more aid "throughout the years" pre and during WWII). And, of course, it leaves two big indirect "aid" expenditures out of the conversation, which are are far greater than aid to Israel over the year: those to Japan and South Korea. We spend many billions of dollars a year to station and support troops and their families in those countries . . . and that's money that is being spent in those foreign countries' economies, not at home in the US to support American businesses. While there is some benefit to the US (as is the case with ANY aid situation), the benefit to those countries is even greater as a deterrence against DPRK and Chinese aggression. And, given that the overwhelming majority of aid to Israel is military in nature, the stationing of US troops in Japan and South Korea is more than an appropriate comparison.

Still, as I mentioned also, that's a foolish baseline. Harping about "over the years" means nothing to the Americans you supposedly care so much about today who are supposedly worse off because we are giving aid to Israel. Again, Israel receives $3 billion in aid a year. The other countries (and Iraq and Afghanistan each receive more aid per year than Israel does TODAY) account for over $25 billion in aid per year TODAY. We cannot go back and take back the aid given to Israel or any other nation "over the years," so that argument is a cheap talking point that doesn't address the here and now.

You mention that no other nation should receive priority over American citizens "whose ancestors were enslaved here and endured Jim Crow until the 1960s," but then choose to focus in on the Jewish state, which receives only a fraction of global US aid today; talking about decades worth of aid won't change the here and now. That's the problem. Again, $3 billion to Israel a year. More than $25 billion in other aid. If you care about putting Americans first, I'd expect you to (using your logic) condemn aid to Iraq and Afghanistan (and don't forget Japan and South Korea), which receive more money than Israel TODAY, and to decry the countries receiving aid, which together, account for the overwhelming majority of US foreign aid.

Try to justify your singling out the Jewish state with someone else. I and others see right through it
Go ahead and ignore the article previously posted.

And yes, I have every right to call out the hypocrisy. That poster happens to be Jewish and likes to play oppression Olympics with African-Americans on this forum. That’s extremely hypocritical to me considering the aid Israel receives. She can talk about what African-Americans should not have when they are Americans citizens whose ancestors, grandparents and parents suffered here but has no problem with the loads of aid given to Israel. You entertain the hypocrisy. I will not.

Try to justify your hypocrisy. I see right through it.
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Old 10-27-2019, 04:17 PM
 
9,897 posts, read 3,399,342 times
Reputation: 7737
Where would it end? Let's say the present generation of AAs get reparations. Do you really think upcoming generations wouldn't demand it as well? And do you think politicians wouldn't use that demand as leverage?
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Old 10-27-2019, 04:20 PM
 
19,394 posts, read 6,442,415 times
Reputation: 12309
Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident View Post
You've been singling out Israel for attack via US foreign aid policy throughout the thread, including spreading falsehoods in doing so:



//www.city-data.com/forum/newre...ply&p=56501671



//www.city-data.com/forum/newre...ply&p=56501575



//www.city-data.com/forum/newre...ply&p=56501711

As I mentioned, Israel does not receive the most aid today (and the timeline since WWII isn't helpful either, as it doesn't say whether any nation has received more aid "throughout the years" pre and during WWII). And, of course, it leaves two big indirect "aid" expenditures out of the conversation, which are are far greater than aid to Israel over the year: those to Japan and South Korea. We spend many billions of dollars a year to station and support troops and their families in those countries . . . and that's money that is being spent in those foreign countries' economies, not at home in the US to support American businesses. While there is some benefit to the US (as is the case with ANY aid situation), the benefit to those countries is even greater as a deterrence against DPRK and Chinese aggression. And, given that the overwhelming majority of aid to Israel is military in nature, the stationing of US troops in Japan and South Korea is more than an appropriate comparison.

Still, as I mentioned also, that's a foolish baseline. Harping about "over the years" means nothing to the Americans you supposedly care so much about today who are supposedly worse off because we are giving aid to Israel. Again, Israel receives $3 billion in aid a year. The other countries (and Iraq and Afghanistan each receive more aid per year than Israel does TODAY) account for over $25 billion in aid per year TODAY. We cannot go back and take back the aid given to Israel or any other nation "over the years," so that argument is a cheap talking point that doesn't address the here and now.

You mention that no other nation should receive priority over American citizens "whose ancestors were enslaved here and endured Jim Crow until the 1960s," but then choose to focus in on the Jewish state, which receives only a fraction of global US aid today; talking about decades worth of aid won't change the here and now. That's the problem. Again, $3 billion to Israel a year. More than $25 billion in other aid. If you care about putting Americans first, I'd expect you to (using your logic) condemn aid to Iraq and Afghanistan (and don't forget Japan and South Korea), which receive more money than Israel TODAY, and to decry the countries receiving aid, which together, account for the overwhelming majority of US foreign aid.

Try to justify your singling out the Jewish state with someone else. I and others see right through it
Hit the nail on the head!

That liberal introduces Israel out of the blue on a thread about reparations to blacks, saying to take away the money given to Israel and give it to blacks. Very telling that she focuses her venom on the Jewish state, advancing the lie that Israel gets the most money, while simultaneously comolaining that Jews put Israel before America. There it is....in black and white....the special condemnation for Israel is a consequence of the hatred of Jews.

The fact is that both Afghanistan and Iraq get more money - each - than the Jewish country, but why isn't she - and other liberals who single out Israel for special condemnation - comolaining about all the money we give to Arabs, which is substantially more?

Liberals can argue to they're blue in the face that the special condemnation they direct toward the Jewish country has nothing to do with hostility toward Jews, but, as you say, people who aren't blinded by resentment for a people who are successful, despite persecution and prejudice, see right through it.
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Old 10-27-2019, 04:20 PM
 
15,068 posts, read 6,112,763 times
Reputation: 5121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post
But Israel only has 8 million people....right? I have no problem with Israel getting aid and I am sure she does not either. I think we are just saying if America can send so much to the world and Americans are willing to send so much to the world, to help solve problems or defend people that WE had nothing to do with, why is there so much opposition to spending money right here at home to help black people? People are always saying that THEY had nothing to do with what happened to black people and hence should not be held to account through their tax dollars. Well....what did they have to do with Iraq, Egypt, Israel or the other nations that get sent billions in aid each year?
That poster is well aware of that but is playing dumb. Just like his little cohort in there, it’s about making sure that what happened here is ignored. Yet they have all the sympathy in the world for Israel because the atrocities committed against them were not done here. For years upon years they have received more aid than anyone else but that’s alright. Look at the long justification he wrote for Israel. But where is the same for African-Americans? Smh. The hypocrisy is so obvious.
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