Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Our financial future is built on a house of cards which could collapse easily.
If so, do you really think politicians are going to pull the retirement investment card from that delicate house of cards to fund single-payer health care and topple the whole thing? Don't let them fool you. They KNOW better than that. Don't believe the Dem candidates' lies for votes routine. They're assuming their voter base is stupid.
No one has to go without insurance. All they have to do is reorder their priorities... Eating out? or health insurance? Tattoos? Or health insurance? Booze/smokes/drugs? Or health insurance? Latest smart phone with an unlimited plan? Or health insurance? Expensive car? Or health insurance? Etc.......
Eating or health insurance? Housing or health insurance? 5K deductible or die?
Eating or health insurance? Housing or health insurance? 5K deductible or die?
Priorities. Food, clothing, and shelter are higher order life necessities than health care, but there is no single-payer provider that covers all Americans for those.
Who can afford health insurance without a group plan? Who should go without health insurance? I agree with you that an employer does not need to provide it and many small businesses would flourish without that burden. I also agree that we need to organize one large nationwide healthcare insurance pool.
Sign uo fir a group rate.
I went through the Memorial Hermann Health Plan for my family for years. It was traditional insurance and cost $1500 per month with $3000 deductible.
Now, I use Christian Healthcare Ministries. It's $450 a month for entire family. Every bill over $500 after negotiation is covered 100% without a cap.
When I had to take my daughter to the ER a couple months ago, the bill was $2,600. After I negotiated, it was $1400. I paid it, sent in the paperwork and 4 weeks later got the check. I didn't pay anythingvout of pocket.
I went through the Memorial Hermann Health Plan for my family for years. It was traditional insurance and cost $1500 per month with $3000 deductible.
Now, I use Christian Healthcare Ministries. It's $450 a month for entire family. Every bill over $500 after negotiation is covered 100% without a cap.
When I had to take my daughter to the ER a couple months ago, the bill was $2,600. After I negotiated, it was $1400. I paid it, sent in the paperwork and 4 weeks later got the check. I didn't pay anythingvout of pocket.
No, it's not traditional insurance, thank God.
Professional organizations offer group plans, as well.
If someone puts a gun to someone’s head and demands money, we all recognize it as a crime. The robber has used unequal bargaining power to obtain the fruits of someone else’s labor.
So why are we ok with businesses who make massive profits from the unequal bargaining power they have over their employees? Ordinary people have to work to survive, so ordinary people have no bargaining power. As a result, most of the value of their labor is captured by the employer. Why are we, as a society, ok with this?
Comparing having put a gun to one's head, with "unequal bargaining power" is infantile, or worse.
So why are we ok with businesses who make massive profits from the unequal bargaining power they have over their employees?
Because you're free to start your own business any time you want.
You're also free to demand any salary/wage you want, but don't whine if someone asks you to justify it.
And for the record, most businesses do not make massive profits.
Only 3% of US businesses are publicly-traded corporations.
The other 97% are not.
And, average CEO pay is $236,020/year.
Naturally, you will, of course, use only the 3% of businesses, and then cherry-pick from the top 500 publicly-traded corporations in that 3% of businesses to make a ridiculous claim that average CEO pay is in the $Millions when it is not.
She could sit on her assets (pun intended) all day and not put that wealth back out there which, BTW, doesn't necessarily mean a return.
A rich kid deciding not to waste his or her life in some soulless nihilistic hedonistic stupor doesn't make them worthy of any praise. She could be spending her time helping the less fortunate, giving to the needy as oppose to working toward hoarding more wealth that she and her family don't need.
Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess
I know I'm talking to a Marxist who doesn't understand such matters but just throwing it out there.
You will never be rich, why would you want to defend a system in which you will never prosper? So you can eat the crumbs from the table of the needy? How dignified....
In many instances, a person cannot quit because in doing so they would lose their health insurance.
And you can thank your federal and State governments for that.
FDR screwed you.
When Wage Inflation was ramping up prices, the correct response by government -- if any response at all -- was a Price Freeze, not a Wage & Price Freeze.
If you wanted a pay raise, your employer had to get prior written approval from the National Labor Board to give you a raise, and the National Labor Board refused to grant wage increases.
The only way your employer could reward you was by paying for the health care plan you chose.
Then, the IRS screwed you.
The IRS wanted to tax the cost of your health insurance.
Then the National Labor Board -- now the National War Labor Board -- decided to declare health insurance as a fringe benefit:
"Amounts paid by an employer on account of premiums on insurance on the life of the employee...may not exceed five per cent of the employee’s annual salary or wages determined without the inclusion of insurance and pension benefits."
Source: War Labor Reports, Reports and Decisions of the National War Labor Board (Washington, D.C.: The Bureau of National Affairs, 4, 1943) LXIV.
Source: Office of Economic Stabilization, Regulations of the Part 4001 Relating to Wages and Salaries, Issued October 27, 1942; amended November 5 and November 30, 1942, Section 4001.1 (h) (2), War Labor Reports 4, XII.
Then your government screwed you again. This time it was your Supreme Court screwing you.
MAFIA accountants crafted union healthcare plans to launder money for the MAFIA, but employers wouldn't sign on, so the MAFIA controlled unions sued and this is what your Supreme Court said:
Unions have the right negotiate fringe benefits on behalf of employees
Source: Inland Steel Co. v. National Labor Relations Board. United Steel Workers Of America, C.I.O., et al. v. National Labor Relations Board; United States Court of Appeals Seventh Circuit.
"...pension and retirement plans constitute part of the subject matter of compulsory collective bargaining under the Act."
September 23, 1948. Writ of Certiorari Granted January 17, 1949. 170 F.2d 247 (1948)
"Following the 1949 Inland Steel decision by the Supreme Court, pensions became a mandatory bargaining topic and the subject of nearly all collective negotiations."
Source: www.nber.org/chapters/c7131.pdf‎
Even so, at least you could profit from your healthcare.
The bona fide insurance companies were coupling life insurance with health insurance.
You pay premiums for 10 years, then you never pay another dime, but you and your spouse and your dependent children are covered for the rest of your life, and when you die, whatever you didn't spend on healthcare goes to your named beneficiaries.
So, you actually profit off your health insurance.
But, the American Hospital Association's Blue Cross was on the verge of financial ruin, because it was barred by law from coupling life insurance with health insurance, because it wasn't a real insurance company.
Naturally, the American Hospital Association ran to Congress and lobbied Congress to ram this legislation through:
"Premiums paid by an employer on policies of group life insurance without cash surrender value covering the lives of his employees, or on policies of group health or accident insurance...do not constitute salary if such premiums are deductible by the employer under Section 23(a) of the IRS Code."
Source: Public Law 83-591, August 16, 1954; Internal Revenue Code of 1954, Section 106. For more information see the 1986 Internal Revenue Code.
Once again, your government totally screwed you.
The point is that if you don't like the fact that your employer lords over your healthcare plans, you have only your government to blame.
And you want your government to fix the problems it created by creating a new problem?
That's like asking a scorpion to fix you after it has stung you by stinging you again.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
