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I never denied this. Some people see Jews as inferior too. I have found the best approach is to prove them wrong, rather than just complain about it and do nothing else. I can guarantee you that nothing they can say or do, will make me feel inferior to some inbred, neo nazi. If anything, their views just motivate me to work harder.
I'll note on the bold, I don't think it is a good idea to prove anyone wrong. IMO black people cannot cure any racist person of their racist beliefs by our behaviors or appearance. Some people just hold onto these core racist beliefs.
IMO it is the same for Jewish people. No matter what you do, there will always be some large group of people who continue to have racist beliefs about Jews.
Black people in the past used to make a big deal of "proving wrong" the racist beliefs about our demogrpahic. Major black leaders made this a priority in the 19th and early 20th centuries. Too many black people IMO still focus too much on what white people think of us and IMO we need to focus on ourselves, highlight our strengths and focus on specific goals to improve ourselves based on what we feel we need to do.
Here is where it gets tricky. Are all the people who move, racist? I have no doubt that some of them are, but what about the guy who just doesn’t want to lose his investment? Is he a racist too?
After all, if I own a stock, and for whatever reason, I feel it is likely to plummet, wouldn’t I be a fool to keep it? And for most people, their house is their biggest investment.
And I agree it is a self fulfilling prophecy. But it is based on data of historical averages, but doesn’t that apply to all investments?
White people now are supposed to feel guilty, and sacrifice themselves because of sins of other white people from long ago. You should never leave an area where minorities live regardless of any negative impact it may have on you and your family, financially or otherwise. Don't be so selfish.
I have seen two cases of white flight, one in Maryland and one in Colorado.
My first husband grew up in a suburb of Washington DC in Prince George's county. After he was grown up and out on his own, his parents continued to live there for several more years until the area became predominantly black. It was no longer safe for them to go to the grocery store or restaurants in their neighborhood as they were threatened (once at gunpoint in a Burger King) and it was made clear that they were no longer welcome in that area. They moved to Florida.
In Colorado, we lived in a suburb with good schools when my kids were growing up. The neighborhood is now mostly hispanic, and white folks with kids are moving because the schools are now spending most of their time dealing with kids that can't speak English and the students that don't speak Spanish are no longer getting the education they need.
Neighborhood demographics are never static. It is neither good nor bad, it's just the way of the world. Like it or not, a lot people want to be around other people who are like them.
I'll note on the bold, I don't think it is a good idea to prove anyone wrong. IMO black people cannot cure any racist person of their racist beliefs by our behaviors or appearance. Some people just hold onto these core racist beliefs.
IMO it is the same for Jewish people. No matter what you do, there will always be some large group of people who continue to have racist beliefs about Jews.
Black people in the past used to make a big deal of "proving wrong" the racist beliefs about our demogrpahic. Major black leaders made this a priority in the 19th and early 20th centuries. Too many black people IMO still focus too much on what white people think of us and IMO we need to focus on ourselves, highlight our strengths and focus on specific goals to improve ourselves based on what we feel we need to do.
Yes, that is why Mrs. Obama needs to put a cork in it.
White people now are supposed to feel guilty, and sacrifice themselves because of sins of other white people from long ago. You should never leave an area where minorities live regardless of any negative impact it may have on you and your family, financially or otherwise. Don't be so selfish.
LOL, I couldn't give a damn what other people say or think in these matters, I have zero white guilt and if an area turns to dog**** for whatever reason I'm gone. I don't owe anyone crap.
Was that clear? LOL
I'm a middle aged white guy and getting a little annoyed at the turn we're taking as a society. It seems like I was taught to treat all people fairly an equally and do the best you can to be a decent human being. It's like it's open season to automatically just crap on white people.
Watching clips of all the bigoted things people had to say about a "bunch of old white guys" when they stormed the impeachment meeting. All of talking heads on MSNBC and CNN and a few other places were just out in the open talking crap about white people. All of liberal media does this and it seems to be fine to rag on white people.
I'm like, folks, this is the kind of garbage that is going to play right into the hands of the White Supremacist crowd.
This open bashing of white people has been going on a good while now, and it's doing nothing but dividing people more and more. I'm sure MLK wouldn't have advocated for this kind of behavior.
People of all stripes need to be treated fairly and with basic civil respect.
White people now are supposed to feel guilty, and sacrifice themselves because of sins of other white people from long ago. You should never leave an area where minorities live regardless of any negative impact it may have on you and your family, financially or otherwise. Don't be so selfish.
You're not supposed to feel guilty. However, if you are leaving a similar neighborhood/community as is indicated in the blue below - you may just don't want to live around minority groups. I'm a person that doesn't enjoy hearing BS and often when people I've personally spoken to about their reasons for not wanting to move to middle income to wealthy majority black neighborhood with "good schools" and "low crime" - the people lie or make excuses instead of just admitting they don't want to live around black people or be a minority.
I'll note, as a black person, I would never move to a majority white neighborhood while my kids are still living with me. I have no problem admitting as such because of the societal nature of our country, I would not feel it would be safe to have my 6'3" black son walking around a well to do majority white neighborhood. My family felt when I moved back to my hometown, because we make well above the median income in our area (which is only around $40k and my household makes 6 figures) that we should move to a whiter/wealthier neighborhood. I told them flat out that I would not. I also tell my white co-workers who question why I live where I do - in 'the hood.' One of my co-workers lives in Temperance, MI a suburb of Toledo, OH and wanted to see if I wanted to move there. She is white and she is one of my good work friends and I flat out told her it was too white and I'd be worried about moving there with my kids. I especially now would not want my black daughter going to a majority white school. Various studies have shown that black girls do not fare well socially at majority white schools and they are often stereotyped by teachers/administrators. So we stay in "the hood" and they go to what many consider our "poorly rated" district. We are fine where we are. My daughter goes to a very diverse school and the majority of her best friends are white and I have no issue with that but I'd not want her in a 95% or more "white" school. I'm sure there are many white parents who have the same feelings I do about sending their kids to a majority minority school. Be honest and don't skirt around the subject/reasons for your actions/decisions in this regard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicagoland60426
That's not always the case, and probably wasn't the number one reason during the infancy stages of white flight. When my grandparents moved to the suburbs from Chicago in the early 60s, they recall white people gradually moving out back then. The thing is crime had yet to impact the community in the early and mid 60s. The first wave of black people were of the same class as the white people living there, and my grandparents even had their home built. This was the beginning of white flight.
It's not just lower middle class or working class-turned-impoverish communities that experienced white flight either. Olympia Field, IL, an upper middle class/affluent majority black suburb south of Chicago was once majority white. I think the median income for black households was/is even higher than that of white households andwere in possession of more expensive and newer homes. I know this was the case of Matteson, IL, also a suburban town south of Chicago. https://www.csmonitor.com/1995/0721/21013.html
In some of these examples, white flight is the cause of just the fear that a crime surge may happen and depreciating home values will follow, whenever a certain percentage of black people move in the community. In Chicago, there are some success stories where a stabilized integrated community did come into fruition via aggressive enforcement against the act of redlining, such as in Oak Park and Evanston. But even in those two, you will notice that the black population doesn't exceed 20 percent of the overall population.
Chicago was the focus of many housing studies. Metro Atlanta now, which is where green_mariner lives and was referencing. The suburban communities in metro Atlanta, some of them are becoming increasingly black and affluent and white people leave usually whenever the black population gets to around 18%.
In metro Atlanta John's Creek is also experiencing white flight due to Asians moving there. Metro Atlanta is considered and "Asian Mecca" today. I worked with a lot of Asians there when I lived there, mostly of Korean heritage.
I'll note on the bold, I don't think it is a good idea to prove anyone wrong. IMO black people cannot cure any racist person of their racist beliefs by our behaviors or appearance. Some people just hold onto these core racist beliefs.
IMO it is the same for Jewish people. No matter what you do, there will always be some large group of people who continue to have racist beliefs about Jews.
Black people in the past used to make a big deal of "proving wrong" the racist beliefs about our demogrpahic. Major black leaders made this a priority in the 19th and early 20th centuries. Too many black people IMO still focus too much on what white people think of us and IMO we need to focus on ourselves, highlight our strengths and focus on specific goals to improve ourselves based on what we feel we need to do.
I agree with this. “Prove them wrong” was a poor choice of words. No matter what you do, they are still going to, outwardly, think they are superior because of their race. But there is nothing that pisses off a racist more than “an inferior person” doing better than them in life. It creates an internal conflict because you are supposed to be inferior to them. And they can lie to their conscious mind, and say that you had this advantage or that advantage, but they cant fool their subconscious mind. So while you are a successful businessman, or doctor, or whatever, and they are working behind the counter at Walmart for minimum wage, they are conflicted over what they want to be true vs what is really true.
On slavery, there was slavery in the north. All northern states had some form of enslavement in their history so just wanted to note that. I have ancestors who were slaves in NJ, RI, NY, and PA.
Thank you for your entire post and especially for pointing out the above! I actually did know that slavery existed in the northern states, too,, but I don't think that many people do. (However, knowing the history of my family, I highly doubt any of them were slave owners -- at least I hope not because that would make them hypocrites.)
I'll note on the bold, I don't think it is a good idea to prove anyone wrong. IMO black people cannot cure any racist person of their racist beliefs by our behaviors or appearance. Some people just hold onto these core racist beliefs.
IMO it is the same for Jewish people. No matter what you do, there will always be some large group of people who continue to have racist beliefs about Jews.
Black people in the past used to make a big deal of "proving wrong" the racist beliefs about our demogrpahic. Major black leaders made this a priority in the 19th and early 20th centuries. Too many black people IMO still focus too much on what white people think of us and IMO we need to focus on ourselves, highlight our strengths and focus on specific goals to improve ourselves based on what we feel we need to do.
I disagree with this to some extent. I have discovered that a portion of those with negative attitudes toward Jews (they're cheap....they run the government.....they use Christian blood in their wine at Passover.....whatever) have developed them because of no exposure to Jews at all. (This is why antisemtitc attitudes are more prevalent among immigrants from countries with few Jewish residents, and why it dissipates by the 2nd generation.)
In high school, a girl moved up from some rural town in Kentucky, and she was shocked when she learned I was Jewish - and didn't have horns. (This was in the 1970s.)
Yes, that is why Mrs. Obama needs to put a cork in it.
She said exactly what I mentioned in the post you quoted. Below are her words:
Quote:
we can't do it for them, because they're broken. Their brokenness in how they see us is a reflection of this brokenness. And you can't fix that. All you can do is the work.
I'll note though that she is older than me and I do see remnants of that old "if we do well, they'll treat us better" stuff in some of her other comments.
But IMO she knows the quote above is the truth. We cannot cure other people of their racism and IMO we should not try to do so. We should just continue to live our lives.
In regards to working on our own issues, black Americans have always had a very high rate of community involvement and what used to be deemed "community uplift" activities. Most white people ignore this part of our demographic's culture as it is a huge part of our culture.
However, IMO the constant desire to compare ourselves to whites, detracts us for focusing on specific items of importance for us. I'll note that white Americans fascination with statistics and mainstream media often is the reason that many black intellectuals, figures, and activists are drawn away from focusing on what we want to focus on. They get baited into stupid conversations from media or the public.
Reminds me of recently I was watching Bill Burr's recent Netflix special (it was great BTW if you haven't seen it) and he mentioned the whole Colin Kapernick thing and how Kapernick was focused on bringing attention to police brutality but the media spun it into a "protest against the flag" lol. So his intent was distorted by media and made into something that it wasn't. This often occurs with black Americans and has occured throughout our history in America. I do feel that we should continue to focus on police/legal issues that create discrimination, but IMO the major focus of our demographic should be in community uplift via economic investment in our communities (buying up our neighborhoods in particular) and the creation of our own schools/cultural centers in order to teach our youth and young adults what our true culture is and how far we have come since 1965 and earlier eras/movements (1789-1830, 1831-1876, 1876-1965, and 1965 to today - these are specific time periods where focused social, political, and economic movements occurred that impacted America at large and are based on our historic culture that should be disseminated with our youth to combat this desire of many of our youth to complain about "spaces" and other items of non-importance in various parts of the greater USA).
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